[Lonnie]

Dear Teachers/Shifus/instructors

What would you do?

Student never shows deference.
Student does not pay tuition for private lessons.
Student will not promote you unless you make them.
Student acts as if they know the art when actually are quite clueless.
Student promotes other teachers when ever anyone asks.
Student travels hunderds of miles to train with other teachers and never comes the 150 miles to train with you.
Student trains with other teacher even when you are around.


What is the standard reaction to this type of student or is this just the modern student relationship.

Help!!

No happeh comments please.

[qiphlow]

have a discussion in private with them about the behavior that you expect from your students.
if the student doesn't wanna play by your rules, then perhaps you don't have anything else to teach them.

[looks2ce]

I would PM the student direct.

[Uatu the Watcher the Ed]

Why not just tell the said student what you expect in the relationship, and then give another chance?

Sometimes it begins from a lack of understanding (note that not everyone knows what is to be expected).

[YouKnowWho]

Teacher and students relationship is just like the relationship between two lovers. When one tries to withdraw love from the other's account, the other will just close that account forever.

I won’t waste any time to discuss with that student (that person may never know why the relationship suddenly broken for the rest of his life). When tenant failed to pay rent, the landlord files eviction in the court. There is nothing to talk about there.

This post has been edited by YouKnowWho: 04 January 2008 - 03:23 AM

[Gary]

Dear Teachers/Shifus/instructors

What would you do?

Student never shows deference.
Student does not pay tuition for private lessons.
Student will not promote you unless you make them.
Student acts as if they know the art when actually are quite clueless.
Student promotes other teachers when ever anyone asks.
Student travels hunderds of miles to train with other teachers and never comes the 150 miles to train with you.
Student trains with other teacher even when you are around.


What is the standard reaction to this type of student or is this just the modern student relationship.

Help!!

No happeh comments please.

Usually with MA just like any other hobby the biggest problem is commitment. Most students just fade away into life and it becomes like a gym membership they let fade away. But if the student is actively traveling for other teachers and promoting other teachers you obviously lack whatever quality or material they are searching for as a whole.

Sometimes teachers that far away can be worth going to see. If so, why not attend the seminar/training with the student? At one point when I was teaching a group class I even took them to another teachers seminar....

Many people act as if they know everything, but the more we learn about these arts, the more we know there is so much more to learn!

After a candid discussion on your students training goals I would establish clear standards with your student, pay schedule, attitude, your policy on training and promoting other teachers. Come to an understanding, then stick to it. If the student deviates, then drop him/her.

But it sounds like you need to get a beer with the student and for both of you to drop the egos. Your first issue was deference, I treat students as friends on the journey of learning, not someone who should bow to me and show deference etc.....

Good luck...

G

This post has been edited by Gary: 04 January 2008 - 03:36 AM

[BuddyPilgrim]

I think you should wonder what you are doing wrong.

[Phuc Dat Bish AKA Dorkface]

From the sound of it, the student isn't seeing you anyway, so why do you consider him a student?

[shawnsegler]

Dear Teachers/Shifus/instructors

What would you do?

Student never shows deference.
Student does not pay tuition for private lessons.
Student will not promote you unless you make them.
Student acts as if they know the art when actually are quite clueless.
Student promotes other teachers when ever anyone asks.
Student travels hunderds of miles to train with other teachers and never comes the 150 miles to train with you.
Student trains with other teacher even when you are around.


What is the standard reaction to this type of student or is this just the modern student relationship.

Help!!

Since this is out in the open I'll end it out in the open.

Lonnie, man...You got some problems buddy. I don't know if you're talking about Lincoln or me, but I'ma set some things straight for you.

I've always shown you tons of deference especially in the format of martial arts and I've taken your back a 1000 times online even when you went out of your way to cause problems. I don't kiss your ass because I don't kiss anyones ass, and you don't either. You say you don't want that but really you do...just like MJG.

You are great teacher and an exceptional martial artist but I've always prided myself on saying things straight. If you want to start another cult and have me and Linc talk about how special you are be mysterious to lure people in as you've stated before...ain't gonna happen.

As to the money, I'm dirt poor and I've always been the first person to try and give you money even when it's hard for me and I've been to the point where I can't afford anyone (except for vacations which is when I go meet friends...which you can't really seem to figure out) and you just show up and you say...no we're all just friends...but you expect money and I've still tried to get if for you...but you don't really think about other peeps situations, because you went and spent crazy money to the professor...I can't and wouldn't do that for you or the professor...not down with the cult brother.

I've always promoted you as a good teacher, but it's not my job to be your sycophant and go and do shit for you...once again that's MJG's thing...if you could get that together I'm sure you would have by now, but you have to take what you can get when you are rude and arrogant to everyone you meet...but I've still tried even when everything was going mellow and you started commanding me to do things.

Ok...I'm clueless...but I have fun and that's what's important for me.

I promote whomever to whomever...I like to be helpful and make friends and do things for my friends...I've tried to be friends with you, but you don't seem to understand what being a friend entails.

I travel to train with other people because that's my hobby...going to other places and meeting with different skilled people and making friends...going out to bend is almost as much of a hassle for me, I get to go out of town a couple of times a year...I chose to do it making friends not training per se.

As to training with Jamie...Jamie is our friend. You need to figure out what it means to make friends. We go and hang out with him because we like to....do we go home and practice jamies arts...no we do yinfu bagua.

Plus I went way out of my not to promote jamie to help get you some extra students and went way out of my way to promote you via the board and get you re-instated when nobody wanted to let you come back.

So here's the deal. You want to be done with me...fine we're done. I love GBZ bagua but I guess I'll have to be content with the clueless little bit that I have.

And If you were talking about Lincoln then maybe you should try and take Lincolns feelings into consideration too...that's what it means to be a friend.

You also don't have anyone to work out with besides us.

Anyhoo, I've been struggling to get you the money for last months tution and you'll get it over the next couple of weeks.

I hope things work out for you and whatever new students you have in the future. I just don't have time for all this anymore.

Makes me kind of sad.

Laters,

Shawn.

[Chris McKinley]

Wow, Lonnie....sounds like you think you're living in 18th century China instead of 21st century U.S.A. I don't want my students to show me deference. I want them to show me courtesy and respect, no more than they should expect from me. Payment may be a different deal, especially if you have an agreement. You should get paid if that's what the two of you agreed to.

As to your other complaints, I not only don't mind if my students go check out/train with other people, I flat tell them not to believe a damn thing I tell them, and to go check it out for themselves. If I'm right, the truth will out, as they say. If not, then they shouldn't be believing the crap I'm spouting anyway. I want my students to go and train with as many different kinds of people they can. I guess that's because my first loyalty is to my student, not my style or my ego.

Now that Shawn has piped up and gone candid about this, I say hat's off to him, at least from what I've read here. He sounds about as reasonable about this whole thing as somebody could be. You, on the other hand, still sound like the cult deprogramming didn't exactly "take". Maybe you need to ask yourself if you need followers or friends more.

[Uatu the Watcher the Ed]

I for one would be a little sad if Shawn and Lonnie parted ways...

Looking at Shawn's videos that he has posted, it looks like good ol' Gong Baozhai-style baguaquan to me (no other influences there). I mean, he's not perfect, but it's a good start, yay?

[Finny]

That's fucking harsh man - to surreptitiously call someone out here like that

Why don't you go show MJG some 'deference' Lonnie - He was YOUR teacher, no?

Oh that's right, you parted ways, calling him a cultmaster.


You don't strike me as someone worthy of anyone's deference.

[Finny]

Oh and it's "consensus"

[YouKnowWho]

If you don't expect much from others then you will have less chance to get hurt if you don't get it.

[GrahamB]

If you don't expect much from others then you will have less chance to get hurt if you don't get it.

Eeyore agrees....

[Darth Histrionic]

This is not your student, this is your nemesis. Kick the person off your premises and tell them not to come back.

My personal opinion is that this is very cut and dry.
If you have basically treated this person well tehn clearly they are treating you like a piece of shit.

However, if they have been maligned or feel unappreciated, perhaps that is why their behaviour is manifesting in this way.

In either situation, it has clearly soured, so cut it loose and move on.

regards

[mix]

Do it the old fashioned way and have a duel at sunset.....