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http://www.youtube.c...8uVH9-DCdk&NR=1
i think lyte burly presents some good ideas about self defense and fitness. much of what he does seems to me to have the same or similar concepts as pakua chang and other ima.
what to ya'all think about what is presented http://www.youtube.c...er/52blocksinfo ?
best,
bruce
52 Blocks Skull And Crossbones How to Catch and Kiss a Punch
#1
- Wuji
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Posted 21 October 2007 - 07:59 PM
best,
bruce
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter</a>
"study the principals not the pose" quote from glen hairston.
bruce
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter</a>
"study the principals not the pose" quote from glen hairston.
MultiQuote
#2
- San Ti
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Posted 21 October 2007 - 10:30 PM
It's coo, but like any other CMA. I would love to see it in a spontaenous setting, with a real fighter
Stopping a jab with an elbow....its totally possible, but unlikely IMO. Especially because jabs are often fakes designed to open up your defense. Still really cool though.
Stopping a jab with an elbow....its totally possible, but unlikely IMO. Especially because jabs are often fakes designed to open up your defense. Still really cool though.
#4
- Huajing
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Posted 21 October 2007 - 11:12 PM
QUOTE (bruce @ Oct 21 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://www.youtube.c...8uVH9-DCdk&NR=1
i think lyte burly presents some good ideas about self defense and fitness. much of what he does seems to me to have the same or similar concepts as pakua chang and other ima.
what to ya'all think about what is presented http://www.youtube.c...er/52blocksinfo ?
best,
bruce
i think lyte burly presents some good ideas about self defense and fitness. much of what he does seems to me to have the same or similar concepts as pakua chang and other ima.
what to ya'all think about what is presented http://www.youtube.c...er/52blocksinfo ?
best,
bruce
These videos are cool. If you look at the biography on their website http://www.52blocks.org/, it seems that they have some connection with IMA, the instructor says that he studied XY/TJQ/BGZ for five years. Also, the DVD features Sifu Roberto Sharpe who is a CMA instructor: http://concretebeat....-chi-bagua.html
Seems like an interesting blend of stuff!
通背神拳誰敢擋﹐無影無形無柔剛。兩手捧定千斤法﹐專打邪魔鬼神忙。
#5
- Lost in the Sea of Japan
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Posted 22 October 2007 - 02:47 AM
I don't really like it.
But what would be awesome would be to have bt come up in here and give a word or ten!
But what would be awesome would be to have bt come up in here and give a word or ten!
Bunburyodo---文武兩道
#8
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Posted 22 October 2007 - 04:37 PM
I'd have to say that it is quite possible for anyone who has fought alot to figure this stuff out on their own.
The move is not anymore Filipino, Thai, Chinese, Indonesian or Japanese than it is a product of an environment "da hood" that could've have lead to it's independent rediscovery.
I'm just saying don't rule out independent development. People who fight a lot are apt to figure out the same stuff that works.
The move is not anymore Filipino, Thai, Chinese, Indonesian or Japanese than it is a product of an environment "da hood" that could've have lead to it's independent rediscovery.
I'm just saying don't rule out independent development. People who fight a lot are apt to figure out the same stuff that works.
The confidence of the amateur is the envy of the professional.
#9
- Anjing
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Posted 22 October 2007 - 04:56 PM
i've seen the first elbow in chiang shan bgz used in this manner as well.
not the hooking the jab and turning your back thing, but the defending-attack to the jab thing.
not the hooking the jab and turning your back thing, but the defending-attack to the jab thing.
use bullet. save chi.
#10
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Posted 22 October 2007 - 05:04 PM
QUOTE (Seán @ Oct 22 2007, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Turning your back on your opponent to try to hook his jab with your arm? Risky business!
You forgot the kiss.
I give it many hundreds of points for style, IF you can pull it off in a fight without getting your ass kicked.
Every day I'm hustlin'
#11
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Posted 22 October 2007 - 05:18 PM
QUOTE (Fan The Madman @ Oct 22 2007, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's the problem with "researching it out".... you have to know what to look for.. or you will
find nothing.
find nothing.
dude...it's like we're sharing the same brain.
use bullet. save chi.
#12
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Posted 22 October 2007 - 05:41 PM
My AJJ teacher was the first one to show this move to me in the context of fighting with katana and applying the move to empty hands.
It was very traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu stuff with hakama and all.
It was very traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu stuff with hakama and all.
This post has been edited by strawdog: 22 October 2007 - 05:49 PM
The confidence of the amateur is the envy of the professional.
#13
- Wuji
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Posted 23 October 2007 - 02:29 AM
QUOTE (Fan The Madman @ Oct 22 2007, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Keep in mind.. there is nothing wrong with borrowing from FMA (FMA borrows from everyone else after all)...
but the point is... "the only thing special about 52 blocks that we've seen so far is a gangstah lifestyle affectation
and some vague notions street lethality based on it's supposed origins in Da Hood ™".
We have heard this before on EF.... though not from 52 Blocks practitioners. LOL.
but the point is... "the only thing special about 52 blocks that we've seen so far is a gangstah lifestyle affectation
and some vague notions street lethality based on it's supposed origins in Da Hood ™".
We have heard this before on EF.... though not from 52 Blocks practitioners. LOL.
hi brian,
dont know if you will see this since you "blocked" me lol ...
i do not think fma "own" anything ... just because it is similar to something you know does not mean it is the same thing you know ...
regarding special things about the system i think their promotion of physical fittness and clean living is good. they seem more positive to me ...
best,
bruce
best,
bruce
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter</a>
"study the principals not the pose" quote from glen hairston.
bruce
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter</a>
"study the principals not the pose" quote from glen hairston.
#14
- Anjing
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Posted 24 October 2007 - 07:19 PM
The FMA link to some of it is highly probable, but that does not take away from what these fellows are doing with it. Not bad, the turning the back thing is suicide against a jab, but the other stuff was good, basic stuff.
The inner city mannerisms don't bother me. These guys didn't seem to 'thug' to me.
These guys can probably coach somebody how to live through a fight better than most 'self-defense' teachers...
Not great, but not bad.
The inner city mannerisms don't bother me. These guys didn't seem to 'thug' to me.
These guys can probably coach somebody how to live through a fight better than most 'self-defense' teachers...
Not great, but not bad.
It's better to build up your own wealth than always thinking about "borrowing". - John Wang
"Sparring is not like love making that you have to remain erection through the whole process. Tiger doesn't need to keep mouth open when chassing a deer." - John Wang
Get YOUR Death to America www.craveworld.com
"Sparring is not like love making that you have to remain erection through the whole process. Tiger doesn't need to keep mouth open when chassing a deer." - John Wang
Get YOUR Death to America www.craveworld.com
#15
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Posted 24 October 2007 - 07:39 PM
QUOTE (bruce @ Oct 22 2007, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hi brian,
i do not think fma "own" anything ... just because it is similar to something you know does not mean it is the same thing you know ...
regarding special things about the system i think their promotion of physical fittness and clean living is good. they seem more positive to me ...
best,
bruce
i do not think fma "own" anything ... just because it is similar to something you know does not mean it is the same thing you know ...
regarding special things about the system i think their promotion of physical fittness and clean living is good. they seem more positive to me ...
best,
bruce
Yeah, definitely look like the good kind of hood rat to me.
Every day I'm hustlin'
#16
- Wuji
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Posted 24 October 2007 - 08:48 PM
QUOTE (Fan The Madman @ Oct 22 2007, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HA!
Very true!! That isolated movement (absent it's context in actual use) exists in Park's system
of bagua in his Eight Elbow drills set.
But I had to go to FMA to be told HOW to use it..
That's the problem with "researching it out".... you have to know what to look for.. or you will
find nothing.
I will have to go back through the Eight Elbow Drills and see what else I may have an actual use for
these days via the FMA.
Very true!! That isolated movement (absent it's context in actual use) exists in Park's system
of bagua in his Eight Elbow drills set.
But I had to go to FMA to be told HOW to use it..
That's the problem with "researching it out".... you have to know what to look for.. or you will
find nothing.
I will have to go back through the Eight Elbow Drills and see what else I may have an actual use for
these days via the FMA.
The best wayto learn how to use something is to use it. If you are sparring in a controlled setting with a partner you can trust to not beat you half to death you should be able to do any movement you like.
Take a movement you like from a form, and use it on everything you possibly can while sparring, sometimes it will work sometimes it won't. Do this for a long time and then you get good at using a technique.
#17
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Posted 25 October 2007 - 06:22 AM
pretty cool. but you better have superb timing to make those apps work.
tiger at the gate
falling leaves kung fu
falling leaves kung fu
#18
- Anjing
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Posted 25 October 2007 - 12:57 PM
QUOTE (ashe @ Oct 25 2007, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
pretty cool. but you better have superb timing to make those apps work.
Nah, they are easy to pull off as long as you have some semblance of footwork and are are paying attention. Since you are only the anvil, it is as easy as catching a baseball.
It's better to build up your own wealth than always thinking about "borrowing". - John Wang
"Sparring is not like love making that you have to remain erection through the whole process. Tiger doesn't need to keep mouth open when chassing a deer." - John Wang
Get YOUR Death to America www.craveworld.com
"Sparring is not like love making that you have to remain erection through the whole process. Tiger doesn't need to keep mouth open when chassing a deer." - John Wang
Get YOUR Death to America www.craveworld.com
#19
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Posted 26 October 2007 - 01:53 AM
QUOTE (Fan The Madman @ Oct 22 2007, 03:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will give you a clue.....
Take a pair of Filipino boxers, father and son. They also know Filipino Martial Arts/Escrima.
The son, Ted "Lucky" Lucay-Lucay grows up to be an excellent amateur level competitive boxer.
He, as escrimadors are wont to do, develops his own "flavor".. blending his Filipino Martial Arts
with his Western Sport Arts. He figures out ways to use knife movements from escrima/arnis in his boxing and vice versa.
Later he moves to Kalifornia.. where he becomes an associate of Guro Dan Inosanto.. and learns
JKD. His emptyhand filipino flavor becomes known as "panatukan" and is spread by the students and grandstudents
of Dan Inosanto.. in concert with their spread of Jeet Kune Do "Concepts".
The elbow work from Panatukan (Filipino "dirty boxing") was then absorbed... by a fable, a street myth in need of
material to make itself real. From Panatukan/Kali/JKD and B-boy breaking, gang legend and urban culture.... thus was born the 52 Blocks.
You want to learn the "real" 52? Pick up any of the excellent works by Rick Faye or Steve Grody on filipino empty hands...
then learn to wear your pants halfway off your ass and throw gang signs, talk alot of shit and learn to rap.
Peace mofos.. and word to your moms!!!
Take a pair of Filipino boxers, father and son. They also know Filipino Martial Arts/Escrima.
The son, Ted "Lucky" Lucay-Lucay grows up to be an excellent amateur level competitive boxer.
He, as escrimadors are wont to do, develops his own "flavor".. blending his Filipino Martial Arts
with his Western Sport Arts. He figures out ways to use knife movements from escrima/arnis in his boxing and vice versa.
Later he moves to Kalifornia.. where he becomes an associate of Guro Dan Inosanto.. and learns
JKD. His emptyhand filipino flavor becomes known as "panatukan" and is spread by the students and grandstudents
of Dan Inosanto.. in concert with their spread of Jeet Kune Do "Concepts".
The elbow work from Panatukan (Filipino "dirty boxing") was then absorbed... by a fable, a street myth in need of
material to make itself real. From Panatukan/Kali/JKD and B-boy breaking, gang legend and urban culture.... thus was born the 52 Blocks.
You want to learn the "real" 52? Pick up any of the excellent works by Rick Faye or Steve Grody on filipino empty hands...
then learn to wear your pants halfway off your ass and throw gang signs, talk alot of shit and learn to rap.
Peace mofos.. and word to your moms!!!
Yeah it it looks like Panatukan mutation..also referred to as "shielding" in some silat systems .. I was one of Guro Teds original students when he first ventured forth from the Torrance Academy in 75/76... I studied and maintained my friendship with him until his passing...
#20 Guest_BlackTaoist_*
Posted 29 October 2007 - 04:07 PM
QUOTE
Yo BT! Welcome to EF.net. Care to comment on the skull and crossbones thread?
Well in my opinion most of these on guys on youtube don't look much like the old timers. Their flow is different and in the old days it was all hands on. No gear. A few solo drills and get it on with any and everybody you could. You learned as you went along.
The 52's was never that widespread.
Even back in the days many just imitated what they saw. The ones who really knew it were Rare. Ok being you ask I going to drop the real 411 about the 52 blocks. I grow up around that shit and in my honest opinion a lot of what some of these cats on the youtube are performing is not the real method, they just doing bit and parts of the 52’s. And most of all the 52s did not come from any Africa as I hear some of these cats are proclaiming.
In my teens I use to hang out with a lot of five percenters that was very good with 52 blocks. Many of these individuals was from Jamiaca Queens that learn the style when they was in Rickersland from this cat that was called mother dear. This brother mother dear I was told was gay, but he was a killer with the 52 blocks because he was the individual that invented the style a GAY GUY!
From what I was told when a new jack come, if mother dear like him, that new jack had to freely give it up, or get ROCK" THE HARD WAY. Not many cats from brooklyn want to talk about these facts and truth about the true oriqinator of the style was a ass taker of this Jailhouse rock style!
Most older cats that had been too jail and been in some shit on the streets will tell you. that back in the days many of the brothers that learn the real 52 blocks got rock first,(got they ass hit from behind) by this big cat name mother dear!
They never tell you that because many back then had to keep playing
the hardcore roll, if brother on the outside knew that got punk, (rape) they knew that get no respect. Soon a brother get free out of jail and back in the streets in their urban community if if found out they got punk, they most likely get beat down bad, and god help you
if you was a God! (five percenter)
Many brothers in the hoods know mother dear was the true oriqinator of the 52 jailhouse fighting style. Many Gods use to tell me this cat mother dear was so nice with the 52
style that he could catch a person jab or punch and kiss the shit and at the same time counterattack. The tale that been running around for years of mother dear down fall in the hoods of NYC, is a New Jack terrified that mother dear was going to try and rape him bum rush mother dear out of fear while he was standing near a jail high balcony and
mother dear fall to his death!
Now as for the 52 blocks styles of Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx... these three NYC areas in my opinion and from the many brothers that Sifu
Rudy had me fight against to compare my skills with these cats, was
where the 52 style was best known on the streets for kicking
ass and beat downs!
Brooklyn cats was known for they aggressive fast crazy wild
attacks, these cats were mostly face hunters, always throwing wild blows to
the face trying to knock a person out, and most time they did, because of they fast aggressive attack. Many brothers from queens didn't like Brooklyn cats, because they was the kind of people that if you beat one of they boys in a one on one fight in they hood,
they still jump your ass!
Queens Cats that was nice with the 52 blocks was these four five
percenters by the name, Justice, born God, Life, and understanding.
Queens NY 52 blocks practitioners utilize more strategy, generally
they were more of counter fighters, they like to evade,
redirect and catch they opponents off balance then finish they opponent.
Queens cats were more of show men, when a queens cat fought using
the 52 style that like to look good kicking your ass, and some queens NY
cats was so nice with they hands that they would talk shit at the
same time kicking your ass.
The best 52 fighter I saw was this brother name Justice, I say
justice because I saw him beat down many Brooklyn cats that claim
to be nice with the 52 blocks as well I saw him beat down many martial
artist. You see these fights back then help me realize and learned about the mindset of hard-core fighting and the reality of real fighting. to the point that looking at justice beat down so many people open my eyes to see real fighting is truly unpredictable and
you have to learn how to change to circumstances. If you don't learn how to change your techniques in a fight fast and quick, you learn the hard way that fighting slow and unrealistic methods can be very painful and dangerous to your health or your life. LOL This is one
reason why I train my Ba Gua zhang realistic as hell!
Bronx 52 style in my opinion were more kickers, sweeps and street style
grappling. I say this because every God I saw and met from the Bronx that
fought using the 52 always try to apply low kicks to attack the legs of they opponent. I think the Bronx 52 style use they legs more because of all the hills they have to walk up in that area. In conclusion I can write a book of all the brothers I met in my younger years that was good at the 52 Style. The truth of the matter in my opinion the 52 style did not come from Africa or even Brooklyn NY. It truly stated in Rikersland jail with Mother dear! Mother dear is like theTung Hai Chuan of the 52 blocks style. Later on when cats got out
of jail many from different neighborhood community stated to add they
own style characteristics to the 52 styles, a lot of this
influencese also came from brothers that knew the 52 style, taking moves from
the two Chinese shaw brothers movies MASTER KILLER AND MASTER KILLER
(TheThirty sixth Chamber) starting Gordon Liu. Most of the 52 blocks techniques believe it or not have a lot of martial techniques taking from these two Gordon Liu movies, and a
lot of Gods later put they own fighting mindset and gangster style fighting influence to they 52 blocks style. When you get time rent Master Killer and also The Thirty sixth Chamber and you see just what I'm talking about.
Back in the days all the five percenters use to love to look at Gordon Liu Kung Fu movies, and Gordon Liu first movie Master Killer was the top of the list for the Gods. The reason was because of the knowledge the monks would drop in these movies. Thus later the five percenters come with they own Mathematics of knowledge of self and the world!
I truly believe the five percenters got most of they stuff from these two movies as well a few other shaolin shaw brothers kung fu movies that was dealing with not just fighting but seeking knowledge of self and the code of WuDe. And there was a lot of kung fu movies out around doing that time when the 52 style was invented, displaying the martial arts training process from beginning to end.
I was told by my brother Carl who been in and out of jail a few times,
who one of my Kung Fu teachers Sifu Rudy Curry Jr, can tell you was one of jamiaica Queens most fear street fighter and knew 52 style as well, they use to play nothing
but kung fu moves. Most of the inmates was five percenters. Believe me when I tell you I know of many brothers that want to jail with they famly giving name, and later came out Gods.(five percenter) Females that wanted to be Gods with be called earths.(Queens) And I saw some good hardcode thug out woman fighters too, that was good with the
52 style.
I one time saw this girl that was nice with her hands that beat the shit out of this brother because he didn't know the days Mathematics. You see the Gods and Earths had they own Mathematics. (knowledge of self and the world) It was kind of like a Philosophy of life base on on some metaphysical stuff, science, literature, geography, biology, earth science, algebra, and geometry.
The bottom line in the hood if one claim to call themself God, they had better know they shit! Individuals in the hood could not just call themself God or Earth and be dumb! These Gods in Earths were like the neighborhood philosophers and to be known as an God or
earth mean you got mad respect in your neighborhood as well other hoods
in NYC.
But the down fall was you better know your Mathematics if you claim to be God, it didn't
matter what hood you was from, if you didn't know your Mathematics, then you would get challenge to fight hand to hand combat, that when the 52 style would come in to play because of your poor understanding of the days Mathematics.
You see the Gods and Earth had a different Mathematic for each day
of the week, and if you didn't know the right Mathematics for that day then one of the gods or earth would challenge to fight you right on the street!
You can be walking with your girl, and you may walk pass a God,
that knows you are a five percenter,and they walk up to you and say: GOD
WHAT'S TODAYS MATHEMATICS? If you know the Mathematics for that
day, they give you big time respect, but if you didn't most likely you would get beat down. Man I tell you shit was crazy back in the days. LOL
Peace
BT