[Andy_S]

OK, I am posting this here in BTDT for a reason....Erle being it.

Looked at a couple of the Mighte Erle's clips the other day. He repeats himself a fair bit. His favored demo seems to be to
Punch focus mitt with something between a hook and uppercut
Stand there shaking for a few seconds, while glaring at the just-hit pad
Showing the application (a punch to the cheekbone, as near as I can tell)
Then announce "That's enought to knock ANYONE out!"

Now, my experience of KOs is only in Western boxing, and I can assure you that being punched on the cheek is NOT a KO. That having been said, I have zero knowledge of Dim Mak, so...if one were to punch someone without gloves, at a particular angle on the cheekbone, what effect would it have? My guess is "A bit of a shake to the head, and that's about it." Particularly if there is no follow up. But Erle is pretty certain he can deck anyone with it, and he doesn't mind saying so. Repeatedly.

Does anyone know whence Erles' remarkable confindence in his own method comes from?

Moreover, does Erle attend gatherings where other more, er, "conventional" IMA folk are to be found? The comment about John Kells rings true - he is a fragile old boy, but has being doing Taiji forever.

DOES he have a method? Speaking about Chen Taijis some years back, he was talking about how this Chen master (I am guessing Chen XW) said the power came from the legs, and later, when said master was spotted wearing shorts, it was noted that he had legs like tree-trunks! (ie Erle's dismissive point seemed to be if you don't have legs like tree trunks, then don't bother with this method. To me, building leg strength is a key part of the gongfu, but hey, what do I know...) Where is the gongfu training in Erle's stuff? IME, stance traiing is elementry in all CMA.


Cheers. BTW, for more general Erle bashing, pls start your own thread (there will be plenty of takers). I am interested in the specific questions above. TIA.

Oh - and "Caw! Caw!"

[Darthwing Teorist]

Can I see these clips? While I have no personal experience of these (I never KO anyone so far), my teacher is fan of hitting the optical nerve. He did not KO me out, however he did a few demos on me and others, and he can make your knees buckle with fairly weak punches. He says that you don't have to hit very strong in order to KO someone out by hitting the optical nerve (which in my understanding goes from the eye to the chin).

I can ask him if he has a video about this. Not sure that he does though, but he may.

[mix]

Earle's people are all very confident.
I met a student of one of his students and he was pretty much around my skill level (not very high), but had been training for much longer than I have.
Its a tough call though, because I've never met the man himself.
I'd love to spar with some of his guys though, just to see if they can dim mak me or not.
I've been an Earle detractor in the past, but I'm sure that he's got some good stuff in there somewhere.

[Lion]

Yes I want to see that vid. I was searching for it a bit but i'm lazy.

[bruce]

hi andy,

in my experience with a knock out punch/slap to the face you must cause the head/neck to "jerk" to one side or another. what i am getting at is i think it is all in the angle you hit. if you look at the linked tyson ko clip. see that all the ko's have a common element. and i think it is not the amount of power i think it is the angle. if he had hit with the same force from another angle i think there would be no knock out ... http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

i hope that addresses some of your question.

This post has been edited by bruce: 04 February 2008 - 08:31 PM

[Michael Babin]

From personal experience in the early 90s ... Erle could hit in a way that made the heavy bag or a shield collapse and rebound violently and he could knock a focus mitt off your hand at close range or make your shoulder wish that the mitt had gone flying.

He could also hit you anywhere in the body or head with control after telling you where he would hit you andfor you to try and stop him. I tried and other people try and they couldn't and they didn't get needlessly hurt by him in return either.

I was there in New Jersey in 2002 the last time he visited North America and there almost 60 people at that weekend workshop, including some well-known people from the American mainstream taiji community. If they didn't like what they saw... I didn't see anyone who had the balls to say it to Erle's face after they had witnessed him demonstrating.

His marketing in recent years is a separate issue and one that has cost him many students, including me ... but the personal skill levels as a martial artist are in no doubt once you meet him. He used connectivity and whole body power in a way that many martial artists and taiji players talk about but rarely do. Course he has also trained since the late 60s and taught since 1971 so there is a lot of experience and hard training behind that skill and the core instruction that he had from his first teachers in Yang style and bagua.

[Juz]

From personal experience in the early 90s ... Erle could hit in a way that made the heavy bag or a shield collapse and rebound violently and he could knock a focus mitt off your hand at close range or make your shoulder wish that the mitt had gone flying.

He could also hit you anywhere in the body or head with control after telling you where he would hit you andfor you to try and stop him. I tried and other people try and they couldn't and they didn't get needlessly hurt by him in return either.

I'm sure he's skilled and a MA all timer but...

a) I've met plenty of people who can hit f*cking hard and had focus mitts ripped off my hand...

b) It goes to show it's alot easier to hit somone than stop someone hitting you...


but mostly I'm tired of "mine is the only way" BS...no need to knock someone out when they're asleep...

caw caw

[Michael Babin]

Juz
Good points but I'm afraid that you'll have to get used to "Mine is the only way" as such thinking seems to be the norm in modern taiji players and teachers (among others) ... in all the years that I have taught, trained and done workshops the only two that I never heard say anything snotty in a teaching environment about other approaches was the first taiji teacher, Allan Weiss, that I studied with seriously and later in workshops, William C.C.Chen.

Its human nature to think what you do is good and even the best of us make comments about other styles or teachers but its carried over to a ridiculous extent on the internet and usually by people who may not have as much skill as they would like to believe and/or who have never met the person they are slagging off.

[Chris McKinley]

I believe I was at the same event that Michael Babin referred to, and can say that I would most definitely not care to be on the receiving end of Erle's committed shots. He's not unique in that respect, but he definitely qualifies. I was an Erle defender for a few years before meeting him, and a couple of years afterward. So much so that for a while, people regularly assumed that I was one of Erle's students, since I was one of his most vocal defenders.

The man may be a little older now (aren't we all), but assuming nothing has changed, I would still confidently say that Erle would wipe the floor with most of the so-called "masters" of Taijiquan on this side of the pond. Oh well....if we wait long enough, another Erle thread will pop up again in a few months. Must be re-run season.

Hey, what do you guys think about that Painter guy?

[mix]

Hey, what do you guys think about that Painter guy?

He said he was going to do my living room and then took off with my money and my girlfriend....

And I was really looking forward to mauve walls

[KiltedTaiji]

Nice one mix!

[RobP]

He said he was going to do my living room and then took off with my money and my girlfriend....

And I was really looking forward to mauve walls

"Not many people know....the fuhrer was a great painter.....a whole apartment in one afternoon.....TWO COATS!!"

Name that film

If you want to find out if points work then hit people and see what happens lol. There are some very short close in shots to the face that are very effective - like anything, right place, right angle, right application of force yields a big result

cheers

Rob

This post has been edited by RobP: 05 February 2008 - 12:44 PM