[Andy_S]

Amusing bit of fun posted on ChenWired: George Liew, a student of legendary Taiji bad boy Cheng Tin-hung, slaps down our boy Mo!
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=vx6kFsT5M5Y

Young George is having quite a go at some of the other Chen style apps shown online: Check out his links on the YouTube page. Dan Docherty, another Chen alumnus, has also had a fair bit to say about Chen and Yang Taiji. Seems like people from Cheng's school aren't lairy about bashing other styles. Still, they do have a no-BS rep.

Let the games begin...

[Uatu the Watcher the Ed]

Hmm - might just be a difference of style (more twisting of limbs in Chen style, almost no twisting of limbs in Wu style)...

This post has been edited by Uatu the Watcher the Ed: 14 March 2008 - 04:14 AM

[Andy_S]

Damn Mo, and there was me thinking you were going to take this lying down...

[KiltedTaiji]

I thought he would have at least done the same application Mo did at the same spead but nothing! That's not very good in my book. Anyone could stand there and say well that's not right but can they demonstarte their point?

I used to get tired of Joe Public coming and telling me i am not doing something right and it should be done a different way. When asked to show me what they mean (y'know cause my chinese is soooo bad i could never understand what you mean unless you physically show me) they 99% of the time can't do it that that is when i co-operate!

Of course now i just laugh and give it the "yeah yeah sure talk is cheap mate" reply. This way it leaves it open for them to try their hand if they wish.

[ChiBelly]

marin,

take a close look at your clip again. even at the angle you are at if the student you were working with had more experience he could and should have punched your face with a "right hook" and a "left jab" but he just stood there for you to teach the application.

look objectively at it and learn from it :-) there is no shame in it.

Left jab makes no sense in that context - you can not throw a right hook and left jab simultaneously. Therefore, since the left jab would have to come after the right hook, you're presuming that the jab will be able to reach Marin prior to his counter strike to the temple. This is possible, but if you throw the jab, you leave the temple vulnerable to a strike that was initiated *while* the right hook was blocked (the response video still shows clearly when the counter-strike was initiated). This simultaneus handling of threat while initiating your own is common in Taiji. Although a jab can be very fast, it's unwise to expose your temple to a strike that was already initiated in order to attempt one. The left hand has to remain by the head to block the counter-strike. Your advice is a good way to get yourself knocked out.

This post has been edited by ChiBelly: 14 March 2008 - 04:48 AM

[ChiBelly]

please replace my and with a or. i see that he was open to be stuck with one hand or the other. i also did not imply simultaneous strikes ...
there are always "ifs" i did not post that to attack marin just pointing out that he in my opinion was open to be stuck.

I think you're missing the point of the application. It is the right hook that first initiates the action; that is the initiating context. There is only one hand left; it can either jab as you suggest, or block. The jab risks getting yourself smacked in the temple. You only have two arms. The only other option is to use legs, but that sort of defeats the point of the demo.

[KiltedTaiji]

wait i want to make sure i've got this...

1 - 1 = 1? Not 2...or even 0? No wonder i failed maths!

[shawnsegler]

This is kind of fun. I don't even need to hear half the conversation to enjoy it..

S- cracks beer faces the wall and listens to muffled screaming in the next apartment

[Tao Joannes]

We need to go to the gifs for the final word.

[ChiBelly]

One other thing to notice in the demo which is kind of subtle. The initiating right hook isn't simply deflected; Marin sticks to it. This makes it more difficult to put power into a jab with the left hand, especially since Marin continues to stick to the right arm while he simultaneously initiates the counter-strike.

This post has been edited by ChiBelly: 14 March 2008 - 05:29 AM

[KiltedTaiji]

Kilted:
hahahaha that was the greatest typo evah.. and it happened right after I joined the special olympics like I said!

Sorry couldn't help myself!

[ChiBelly]

How does one pull out video / gifs like that from YouTube anyway? I didn't know that was technically possible.

[Tao Joannes]

Yeah, I have limited control of which frames the converter tosses.

On the other hand, it does look like, at the point where it looks like both feet are off the ground and you're leading with the left shoulder, that instead of the block, he could have brought in an intercepting overhand left similar to a xingyi horse and brought the left side of his body into it with the ferocity.

[ChiBelly]

This is kind of fun. I don't even need to hear half the conversation to enjoy it..

S- cracks beer faces the wall and listens to muffled screaming in the next apartment

Too late in the day for this. We're on the East Coast. It's past 1 a.m., a weeknight, not my birthday any more, and I gotta work in the morning. Is that screaming accompanied by rhythmic thumping sounds?

[Tao Joannes]

How does one pull out video / gifs like that from YouTube anyway? I didn't know that was technically possible.

You can steal anything off the internet. I'm using leech video to play with these, its a spottily available website with limited control.

You can download the flv's with a suite of different tools and use others to convert to gif on the puter, but I like the simplicity of the shitty web interface.

[ChiBelly]

Yeah, I have limited control of which frames the converter tosses.

On the other hand, it does look like, at the point where it looks like both feet are off the ground and you're leading with the left shoulder, that instead of the block, he could have brought in an intercepting overhand left similar to a xingyi horse and brought the left side of his body into it with the ferocity.

If you have an url of anyone demonstrating xingyi horse, that'd help because I don't know what it is and can't picture it.

[Tao Joannes]

If you have an url of anyone demonstrating xingyi horse, that'd help because I don't know what it is and can't picture it.

I was looking, can't find it.

Basically, imagine a overhand left that uses the elbow to cover the left side of the head and ends with the left foot forward.

[ChiBelly]

I was looking, can't find it.

Basically, imagine a overhand left that uses the elbow to cover the left side of the head and ends with the left foot forward.

Thanks for trying. I trying to imagine it but am not sure I get it, but if my imagination were good I'd be writing gaming software instead of print software.

[Tao Joannes]

Joannes,
in the frames you pulled, well that's odd, in the actual video I moved much faster.. he would have to be even faster than me, with a much larger movement to reach me with what you speak of. Watch the original and it is plain to see I think. Either way, some of you folks.. yes, you rather 'new' folks, prefer to view a video of ONE application method as if it is supposed to represent THE ONE WAY TO WIN A FIGHT.. and then proceed to say "could have done this" or "should have done that". It is a rather simplistic and unrealistic view of things.

In fact there are many possible options that the opponent could respond with that would neutralize my application here, but that really is not the point. Its actually a dumb point, but a very common one. One application is one application. This one in particular is one that can work very well and is very useful if one had the method and training behind it. But every application has myriad counters.. the fact that you can find counters does not diminish the value of the application, it just means you are almost waking up.. almost.

in this case, the way the application is performed is not inherently unsafe or flawed, it is a demo. Fighting, however, is inherently unsafe.

I understand perfectly. An app demo is an app demo, not a fighting system. I'm just going with the conversation.

In that spot, yeah, dude would have to be quick, but it's a real quick shot. It's a much smaller movement than you'd think. If you're riding the right hand, that would actually help it work. If you consider that your first strike is really just a setup without any significant stopping power, then the "striking while staying covered" aspect of the Horse would leave you stymied.

Of course, you could just ride it out, but then he'd have his left side all up in your space.

But seriously, yeah, it's just an app demo.

I, for one, can't stand that "but what if I did this" bullshit that you get working through these from some folks.

"Then I would do something else, obviously"

[Tao Joannes]

from mike patterson

Hsing-I Horse Form
http://www.hsing-i.c...cs/WMasForm.mpg

Yeah, that's close enough. In ours the arms move along more of a horizontal plane around shoulder height.

The bowing of the punching hand should lever the incoming blow away from the danger zone.

It looks open, and for some shots, it is, but for that shot you're throwing, it's perfect.