[muchimi]

my reasons for posting this is not to troll but to enlighten and promote open discussion on one of the most pressing issues of our times, that affects both moderate peace loving muslims and non muslims alike.

if this is offensive to you, please dont read this thread or view the vids from robert spencer.

that said, enjoy the show and post your thoughts; once again, if your going to accuse me of being a racist islamophobe, instead of offering positive input, please do me and yourself a BIG favor, read another threadl and spare me; please dont accuse me of trolling, im warning you now; if any critisizm of islam is offensive to you, DONT READ THIS THREAD OR LISTEN TO ANY OF THESE VIDS!!!
thank you.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=otpUIMI2Pg4

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=VC6MaThJbIY

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=iwkwMBn9eYw

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I could continue to post more links but for now thats enough to wet anyones whistle, if you want to view more they are readily available.

[muchimi]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

one more vid on salmon rushdie.....

and the armenian genocide

http://www.youtube.c...WyugCPf0LQ&NR=1

This post has been edited by muchimi: 09 April 2008 - 10:39 AM

[Darth Histrionic]

ok, I have not looked at your links and I am no longer going to pay attention to your rhetoric and propaganda

hooray!

[muchimi]

ok, I have not looked at your links and I am no longer going to pay attention to your rhetoric and propaganda

hooray!

rhetoric and propaganda???


you are unfortunaltly another prime example of the ostrich hiding hts head in the ground trying to ignore a threat, or worse, you are an apologist for murder..

yes please take your toys home with you and suck your thumb or better yet go punch yourself in your own name......darth..

by the way, i didnt invent the word jihad.....

funny how in the off topic section we get threads on exotic pics or venting or how GW is the worst or any number of perfectly acceptable topics, but when a thread is brought up on the most defining fight of our times ( my parents time it was the nazi's ) its automatically deemed to be rhetoric and propaganda....

balonley salamy and pastramie...liverwurst...

im not cursing im not making personal attacks against individuals, im pointing out a very real situation that is engulfing the world.....

this remind me of the movie jaws, when the mayor of that town refuses to see that there is a shark attack; richard dryfus says;" these things are perfect eating machines, and you wouldnt recognize one if it bit you on your butt...."

[Juz]

my reasons for posting this is not to troll...

oh reeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.......



Holy Flame War in 5....4....3....

This post has been edited by Juz: 09 April 2008 - 12:42 PM

[Azer]

enlighten and promote open discussion

Enlighten?!? That’s a big claim coming from someone so obviously influenced by ignorant propaganda, ever been to a Muslim country?

Your idea of open discussion is severely contradicted by your statement here:

once again, if your going to accuse me of being a racist islamophobe, instead of offering positive input, please do me and yourself a BIG favor, read another threadl

You don’t seem to know what an open discussion is and only want positive comments which automatically nullifies your open discussion and makes you very US Government’ish, i.e. your either with us or against us/my way or the highway.

Then you go and say this:

but when a thread is brought up on the most defining fight of our times ( my parents time it was the nazi's ) its automatically deemed to be rhetoric and propaganda....

Equating Islam and Nazism? Hmmm… sounds like typical Nazi dehumanization to make all your beliefs and plans plausible… good job!

Is this you by any chance?

This post has been edited by Azer: 09 April 2008 - 01:00 PM

[Darth Histrionic]

rhetoric and propaganda???


you are unfortunaltly another prime example of the ostrich hiding hts head in the ground trying to ignore a threat, or worse, you are an apologist for murder..

yes please take your toys home with you and suck your thumb or better yet go punch yourself in your own name......darth..

by the way, i didnt invent the word jihad.....

funny how in the off topic section we get threads on exotic pics or venting or how GW is the worst or any number of perfectly acceptable topics, but when a thread is brought up on the most defining fight of our times ( my parents time it was the nazi's ) its automatically deemed to be rhetoric and propaganda....

balonley salamy and pastramie...liverwurst...

im not cursing im not making personal attacks against individuals, im pointing out a very real situation that is engulfing the world.....

this remind me of the movie jaws, when the mayor of that town refuses to see that there is a shark attack; richard dryfus says;" these things are perfect eating machines, and you wouldnt recognize one if it bit you on your butt...."

even here you continue to spout your hate and vitriol. lovely.
troll elsehwere troll, we don't care about your brand of fascism and hate.

[Arthur Watley]

Based on your last thread about Islam, I'm not even going to bother.

If you need me, you can find me in some of the less inane topics, furiously not giving a shit. Thanks!

[Ian C Kuzushi]

ever been to a Muslim country?

I have. It was pretty bad for women there. But I don't think that this characterizes all Muslims.

[Darth Histrionic]

I have. It was pretty bad for women there. But I don't think that this characterizes all Muslims.

was it any worse than say ...here?

you know, where i can walk into a 7/11 and look at some young tart being splayed by a huge cock and buy said pictures for 3.95 and to have my choice of which woman I want to objectify in my mind as she is nothing more than a representation of my sexual fantasy? I mean, is it more degrading and humiliating than that?

Are they pimped out in stables in run down areas for fat guys to have their way with for 50 bucks?

Are they fed princess stories and made to believe that they are a weaker sex and that there role is predominantly in the servioce of men and that if they work they are hard iron cunts?

Is it worse than that? Or better? Or was your perception of things at all contextual in a cultural way?

When i went to Chichenitza, as I drove through the countryside I saw people who were so poor it was equal to the worst poverty I've ever seen in my life. I was shocked.

My friend from Sweden had to set me straight about it. He lived in venezuela for a few years in a place that was also impoverished, but he did realize that there was contextual relevance at play. the people made do with what they had and didn't aspire to a whole lot more, because they simply did not have the other options. So, they were ok, even in their poverty, they could find happiness and meaning in their life.

In a wealthy country like mine or yours, because it is a safe assumption that any of us using this board are of some resources afterall, the excuses for exploitation become less and less meaningful. how can we as a wealthy and capable nation still be treating each other with such dis-compassion?

I'm more amazed by that than the treatment of women in islamic countries. there is a wide scope of societal constructs in the muslim world as well.

Saudis do not behave in the same way as indonesian muslims who do not behave in teh same social construct as those in dubai who don't share the points of view of Iran and these are unlike the palestinian/israeli muslims or the lebanese or the turkish who are even more liberal.

the skewed views of the likes of the poster who started this in order to paint a whole group of people as evil with as few strokes as possible speaks to the posters own hate and twisted mindedness on the matter.

It would appear that the poster has a weak mind and would hope that your mind is as weak as his in order to validate the errors he commits as truths.

Just more lies and obfuscation is what it really amounts to with a smothering of the hater gravy.

troll. not even a good one.

[MikeC]

was it any worse than say ...here?

LOL!

[dragontigerpalm]

was it any worse than say ...here?

you know, where i can walk into a 7/11 and look at some young tart being splayed by a huge cock and buy said pictures for 3.95 and to have my choice of which woman I want to objectify in my mind as she is nothing more than a representation of my sexual fantasy? I mean, is it more degrading and humiliating than that?

Are they pimped out in stables in run down areas for fat guys to have their way with for 50 bucks?

Are they fed princess stories and made to believe that they are a weaker sex and that there role is predominantly in the servioce of men and that if they work they are hard iron cunts?

Is it worse than that? Or better? Or was your perception of things at all contextual in a cultural way?

When i went to Chichenitza, as I drove through the countryside I saw people who were so poor it was equal to the worst poverty I've ever seen in my life. I was shocked.

My friend from Sweden had to set me straight about it. He lived in venezuela for a few years in a place that was also impoverished, but he did realize that there was contextual relevance at play. the people made do with what they had and didn't aspire to a whole lot more, because they simply did not have the other options. So, they were ok, even in their poverty, they could find happiness and meaning in their life.

In a wealthy country like mine or yours, because it is a safe assumption that any of us using this board are of some resources afterall, the excuses for exploitation become less and less meaningful. how can we as a wealthy and capable nation still be treating each other with such dis-compassion?

I'm more amazed by that than the treatment of women in islamic countries. there is a wide scope of societal constructs in the muslim world as well.

Saudis do not behave in the same way as indonesian muslims who do not behave in teh same social construct as those in dubai who don't share the points of view of Iran and these are unlike the palestinian/israeli muslims or the lebanese or the turkish who are even more liberal.

the skewed views of the likes of the poster who started this in order to paint a whole group of people as evil with as few strokes as possible speaks to the posters own hate and twisted mindedness on the matter.

It would appear that the poster has a weak mind and would hope that your mind is as weak as his in order to validate the errors he commits as truths.

Just more lies and obfuscation is what it really amounts to with a smothering of the hater gravy.

troll. not even a good one.

To liken the abhorent treatment of women in certain Muslim countries to the 'western' view of women is absurd. To defend codified ignorance and evil because of cultural context is IMO no less skewed a view than that of the blanket hater of a whole group of people.

This post has been edited by dragontigerpalm: 09 April 2008 - 02:22 PM

[Darth Histrionic]

So, now we can see how we are not seeing clearly due to cultural relevance.

Why not ask a muslim what it is they dislike about western society.

I am willing to bet that within 5 line items, the treatment of women in westren nations will arise as something that villifies the islamic mind.

certain muslim countries? which ones? how about how in UTAH guys marry off teenage girls to adult men for religious reasons?
think that doesn't happen? It does.

They are opposite porn exploitation versus religious exploitation, but both are a form of exploitation and gender bias. Frankly, I have less issues with women wearing hijabs than with 20 something year old girls not having the smarts to make a choice other than entering the porn industry which by the way amounts to multi billion dollars in a year in the west so it is HUGE and GLARING comparitive problem. If you can't see it, i am sorry, but there it is, in your face.

these comparisons are fruitless is my point. People will hate because they do not know, are unfamiliar or are prejudice in their thinking.

mark twain was right though, there is no greater enemy to prejudice than travel. (para).

seriously, get out intio the world if you think Islam is evil. You are mistaken.

[Michael]

Darth gave some specific examples about how women are treated. I tend to take his post to mean that with our "higher standards", and I that's our self-image, the existence of the things he mentioned is abhorrent to our own standards, which are the standards we use to judge the muslim women in other countries.

I've nothing against freedom of choice, but prostitution and porn are very exploitative, even when legal. Not saying the answer is in whether or not they're officially allowed, but maybe more along what I think Darth was saying about compassion and, I would add, creating an economic situation where very, very few people would ever consider that kind of job, because most do it when there are no other choices.

EDIT: cross-posting with Darth. Guess we're in agreement on a lot of this.

This post has been edited by Michael Udel: 09 April 2008 - 02:34 PM

[Darthwing Teorist]

Based on your last thread about Islam, I'm not even going to bother.

If you need me, you can find me in some of the less inane topics, furiously not giving a shit. Thanks!

+1

[RobP]

So, now we can see how we are not seeing clearly due to cultural relevance.

Why not ask a muslim what it is they dislike about western society.

I am willing to bet that within 5 line items, the treatment of women in westren nations will arise as something that villifies the islamic mind.

Are we saying that there is no porn or prostitution outside of western nations?

[Darth Histrionic]

Are we saying that there is no porn or prostitution outside of western nations?

no

the 'royal we' are saying that a little pluralism and less relativism and hypocricy is in order when discussing these things.

also, the poster who started the thread has shown themselves to consistently be a hater of islam based on rhetoric and skewed perceptions of it.

[Tao Joannes]

I've nothing against freedom of choice, but prostitution and porn are very exploitative, even when legal. Not saying the answer is in whether or not they're officially allowed, but maybe more along what I think Darth was saying about compassion and, I would add, creating an economic situation where very, very few people would ever consider that kind of job, because most do it when there are no other choices.

Dude, can we just leave the porn out of this.

This thread is about muchimi's ignorance, there's no need to drag the adult film industry's good name through the mud.

[Darth Histrionic]

How about gratuitous violence then as a form of entertainment>?

why is it ok in our society to encourage our children to blow the heads off of nameless faceless kafia wearing 'enemies'?
but that in the same society we are outraged that our schools teach our young teenagers how to use condoms and prevent teenage pregnancy?

why is teenage pregnancy a problem?

Western society is a cesspool of eroded morality, disassembled ethics, ignorance and hypocricy. If we cannot make headway with our own society, who the fuck are we collectively to prosecute our dislikes onto another?

[Tao Joannes]

Yeah, that always fascinates me.

You can see ten murders (or the evidence thereof) in any given night of TV, yet let a little nip slip, and they lose their freaking minds.

"Oh noes, teh titties!"