[Sprint]

Taijiquan, well-known for its benefits for health, is practiced all over the world. It has beautiful forms and can be useful in self-defense if you have been trained properly and long enough under the tutelage of a master.

Yiquan is a relatively new style of Chinese martial art, founded by Wang Xiang-zhai in the 1920s by combining the main training techniques and principles of Xingyi quan, Taijiquan, Bagua Zhang, and other styles of martial arts.

Taijiquan and Yiquan have differences but they also have similarities. I will try to make a comparison of the two systems and find out how they complement each other.

Similarities
What Yiquan takes from Taijiquan is Taiji's training principle: use mind and not force and so we see that practitioners of both disciplines practice gently, slowly and with great concentration. This practice helps to nourish our life energy and improve our health and fitness. In this respect, Yiquan is very similar to Taijiquan and Qigong. They suit people of all ages.
Then both Taijiquan and Yiquan have power discharge, which is done in a relaxed manner with power released only at the point of contact instead of using brute force. Both systems are good not only for health but also for self-defense.
Another thing Yiquan borrows from Taijiquan is push-hands practise, though Yiquan push-hands is done differently with its own flavour and more emphasis on self-defense, which is epitomyzed by its strong internal power.
Finally, they both belong to the internal systems of Chinese martial arts and require that students and practitioners have correct postures to make qi flow and develop internal strength. Such requirements as lifting up the top of the head, dropping shoulders and elbows, bending knees, flexing hip joints and sitting properly on top of our legs apply to both Taijiquian and Yiquan.

Differences
Curriculum
The major differences are in the contents or components of the two systems. Taijiquan has beautiful forms or routines, on which students and practitioners spend most of their time when they train. In fact, they spend so much time in the routines that they almost forget there are other areas of Taijiquan they need to work on. For most students or practitioners, learning Taijiquan is only doing the Taiji routines and push-hands.
Yiquan does not have routines, which give practitioners many opportunities to work on other aspects of martial arts, rather than the forms. Yiquan students spend at least half of their training time doing Zhan-zhuang to develop their internal strength, which they can use in push-hands and fighting.
Before they do push-hands, students will need to learn some unbalancing and controlling techniques, which are called Shi-li. If they skip this, they will not be able to use their internal strength developed from zhan-zhuang, and so will not do well in push-hands.
Before students can take part in sparring, they will need to practice stepping which will help them attack and evade attacks of their enemy quickly and easily. Then they also practice a few punches (only 4 or 5) and kicks (only 3 kicks), which are useful in fighting.
After training hard on the basics (zhan-zhuang, shi-li, zou-bu or stepping), students will have laid a good foundation for push-hands and sparring, which are two of the few major components of Yiquan training.
Judging from the different curriculum of Taijiquan and Yiquan as described above, we can see that Taijiquan emphasizes on the artistic, and health aspects of Chinese martial arts while Yiquan on the practical and health aspects. Taijiquan is graceful and is loved by millions of people. Yiquan does not have the beautiful form but are very good to health and for self-defense.

Tactics
As Taijiquan is more oriented towards the perfection of their beautiful routines, it emphasizes less on internal strength, so it has a big gap in its teachings of this area. Taijiquan's main tactics in push-hands and sparring relies a lot on neutralization and make use of the opponent's strength and retaliate accordingly. The well-known saying, "To deflect one thousand pounds with four ounces of strength" describes the Taijiquan tactics quite well.
Yiquan emphasizes on power, and states clearly power can only be developed through zhan-zhuang. Yiquan students and practitioners will not hesitate to use their power to attack and overpower their opponents. Neutralization, which is very popular in Taijiquan, is not used a lot. In stead, they tend to use their power to redirect the incoming force.

Complements
It can be easily understood that Taijiquan is more like an upper level of a construction while Yiquan the foundation. Each of them is strong in what the other lacks and so they can complement each other very nicely.
It is very obvious that Taijiquan lacks internal strength. Although some teachers claim to have secret training methods to increase internal strength, they are not really effective. Taiji practitioners should borrow Yiquan's zhan-zhuang to fill the gap – lack of internal strength - in their training system. If they can learn Yiquan push-hands techniques, it will certainly raise their push-hands skill to a new high. Taiji teachers should take a good look at the Yiquan curriculum and redesign their one to make Taijiquan training system complete.
Yiquan is simple and direct, but this can be boring and unconvincing to some people. Another fact is that many laymen do not believe in Yiquan's training methods. In these cases, learning Taijiquan can help. After people have learned the Taiji routines and push-hands, they will be able to better appreciate the practical approach of Yiquan.

Conclusion
Taijiquan and Yiquan complement each very well. For people who have practiced Taijiquan for many years without much improvement, they should seriously look at Yiquan. For people who find Yiquan too simple, they can think about doing Taijiquan. We can say Taijiquan is a mansion and Yiquan the foundation. A mansion cannot exist without its foundation, and a foundation will be a waste if we do not build a mansion on it.

The following translation, which shares the same conclusion, can help you understand the two systems better:
The Jing of Taijiquan and Yiquan

Touching hands
Taijiquan. When a Taiji master "plays" (practices) with you, you can only touch his clothes. He will make you feel good and have the hope that you can catch up with him.
Yiquan. When a Yiquan master plays with you, he will "nail" you right down to the ground. (His internal strength will go straight down through your arms to the bottom of your feet.) You will have no idea where his jin comes from. He smiles and at the same time straightens up his fingers, one at a time, and you will fall into despair.

Power discharge
Taijiquian. When your arms get in touch with those of a master, his arms will turn a small circle. You can see the master stand in front of you, but cannot find a gap to attack. Keep looking, and suddenly you find that you have been thrown flying off, and your brain becomes blank. Thinking back on this moment, it is like sipping a cup of good tea.
Yiquan. When your arms get in touch with those of a master, his forearms will move slightly. You can feel that time and space are compressed, but not sure what is happening. What follows is that you are thrown off balance. You are excited because you are thrown off by real strong internal force. The master beat you with his sheer power, not tricks.

Movements
Taijiquan. The movements of Taiji practitioners are very light, never too fast nor too slow. When they release power, their body moves slightly and then stop as if not wanting to hurt you.
Yiquan. The movements of Yiquan practitioners are very simple, without any deliberation. When they release power, their body does not even move. Only their arms move forward and then straighten up their fingers.

Combination
Taijiquan is Yin and Yiquan Yang. This is true and real. Hope they both can work well together, just as our lips and teeth which depend on each other.

[Hobotov]

For people who have practiced Taijiquan for many years without much improvement, they should seriously look at Yiquan.

I'd say those people better start looking for good Taiji teacher.

Taijiquan is Yin and Yiquan Yang.

? Taijiquan is both Yin and Yang by deafault.

Hope they both can work well together, just as our lips and teeth which depend on each other.

I think that those arts are self-sufficient when practiced right way. At least Taijiquan

[jpaton]

it's a bit confusing because after reading it i got the impression that tu-ky lam favored yi chuan over tai chi. or at least thought tai chi was incomplete without it.

i looked up tu-ky lam and i guess he studies both : http://www.geocities.com/tukylam/

i disagree with what he is saying. tai chi and yi chuan are both complete systems. if you feel a need to do standing for tai chi you don't have to do yi chuan just find a qualified tai chi instrutor and learn style specific standing from them.

i'm also confused why he keeps calling tai chi beauitful and what that has to do with anything?

[Taoist]

Taijiquan, well-known for its benefits for health, is practiced all over the world. It has beautiful forms and can be useful in self-defense if you have been trained properly and long enough under the tutelage of a master.

Yiquan is a relatively new style of Chinese martial art, founded by Wang Xiang-zhai in the 1920s by combining the main training techniques and principles of Xingyi quan, Taijiquan, Bagua Zhang, and other styles of martial arts.

Taijiquan and Yiquan have differences but they also have similarities. I will try to make a comparison of the two systems and find out how they complement each other.

Similarities
What Yiquan takes from Taijiquan is Taiji's training principle: use mind and not force and so we see that practitioners of both disciplines practice gently, slowly and with great concentration. This practice helps to nourish our life energy and improve our health and fitness. In this respect, Yiquan is very similar to Taijiquan and Qigong. They suit people of all ages.
Then both Taijiquan and Yiquan have power discharge, which is done in a relaxed manner with power released only at the point of contact instead of using brute force. Both systems are good not only for health but also for self-defense.
Another thing Yiquan borrows from Taijiquan is push-hands practise, though Yiquan push-hands is done differently with its own flavour and more emphasis on self-defense, which is epitomyzed by its strong internal power.
Finally, they both belong to the internal systems of Chinese martial arts and require that students and practitioners have correct postures to make qi flow and develop internal strength. Such requirements as lifting up the top of the head, dropping shoulders and elbows, bending knees, flexing hip joints and sitting properly on top of our legs apply to both Taijiquian and Yiquan.

Differences
Curriculum
The major differences are in the contents or components of the two systems. Taijiquan has beautiful forms or routines, on which students and practitioners spend most of their time when they train. In fact, they spend so much time in the routines that they almost forget there are other areas of Taijiquan they need to work on. For most students or practitioners, learning Taijiquan is only doing the Taiji routines and push-hands.
Yiquan does not have routines, which give practitioners many opportunities to work on other aspects of martial arts, rather than the forms. Yiquan students spend at least half of their training time doing Zhan-zhuang to develop their internal strength, which they can use in push-hands and fighting.
Before they do push-hands, students will need to learn some unbalancing and controlling techniques, which are called Shi-li. If they skip this, they will not be able to use their internal strength developed from zhan-zhuang, and so will not do well in push-hands.
Before students can take part in sparring, they will need to practice stepping which will help them attack and evade attacks of their enemy quickly and easily. Then they also practice a few punches (only 4 or 5) and kicks (only 3 kicks), which are useful in fighting.
After training hard on the basics (zhan-zhuang, shi-li, zou-bu or stepping), students will have laid a good foundation for push-hands and sparring, which are two of the few major components of Yiquan training.
Judging from the different curriculum of Taijiquan and Yiquan as described above, we can see that Taijiquan emphasizes on the artistic, and health aspects of Chinese martial arts while Yiquan on the practical and health aspects. Taijiquan is graceful and is loved by millions of people. Yiquan does not have the beautiful form but are very good to health and for self-defense.

Tactics
As Taijiquan is more oriented towards the perfection of their beautiful routines, it emphasizes less on internal strength, so it has a big gap in its teachings of this area. Taijiquan's main tactics in push-hands and sparring relies a lot on neutralization and make use of the opponent's strength and retaliate accordingly. The well-known saying, "To deflect one thousand pounds with four ounces of strength" describes the Taijiquan tactics quite well.
Yiquan emphasizes on power, and states clearly power can only be developed through zhan-zhuang. Yiquan students and practitioners will not hesitate to use their power to attack and overpower their opponents. Neutralization, which is very popular in Taijiquan, is not used a lot. In stead, they tend to use their power to redirect the incoming force.

Complements
It can be easily understood that Taijiquan is more like an upper level of a construction while Yiquan the foundation. Each of them is strong in what the other lacks and so they can complement each other very nicely.
It is very obvious that Taijiquan lacks internal strength. Although some teachers claim to have secret training methods to increase internal strength, they are not really effective. Taiji practitioners should borrow Yiquan's zhan-zhuang to fill the gap – lack of internal strength - in their training system. If they can learn Yiquan push-hands techniques, it will certainly raise their push-hands skill to a new high. Taiji teachers should take a good look at the Yiquan curriculum and redesign their one to make Taijiquan training system complete.
Yiquan is simple and direct, but this can be boring and unconvincing to some people. Another fact is that many laymen do not believe in Yiquan's training methods. In these cases, learning Taijiquan can help. After people have learned the Taiji routines and push-hands, they will be able to better appreciate the practical approach of Yiquan.

Conclusion
Taijiquan and Yiquan complement each very well. For people who have practiced Taijiquan for many years without much improvement, they should seriously look at Yiquan. For people who find Yiquan too simple, they can think about doing Taijiquan. We can say Taijiquan is a mansion and Yiquan the foundation. A mansion cannot exist without its foundation, and a foundation will be a waste if we do not build a mansion on it.

The following translation, which shares the same conclusion, can help you understand the two systems better:
The Jing of Taijiquan and Yiquan

Touching hands
Taijiquan. When a Taiji master "plays" (practices) with you, you can only touch his clothes. He will make you feel good and have the hope that you can catch up with him.
Yiquan. When a Yiquan master plays with you, he will "nail" you right down to the ground. (His internal strength will go straight down through your arms to the bottom of your feet.) You will have no idea where his jin comes from. He smiles and at the same time straightens up his fingers, one at a time, and you will fall into despair.

Power discharge
Taijiquian. When your arms get in touch with those of a master, his arms will turn a small circle. You can see the master stand in front of you, but cannot find a gap to attack. Keep looking, and suddenly you find that you have been thrown flying off, and your brain becomes blank. Thinking back on this moment, it is like sipping a cup of good tea.
Yiquan. When your arms get in touch with those of a master, his forearms will move slightly. You can feel that time and space are compressed, but not sure what is happening. What follows is that you are thrown off balance. You are excited because you are thrown off by real strong internal force. The master beat you with his sheer power, not tricks.

Movements
Taijiquan. The movements of Taiji practitioners are very light, never too fast nor too slow. When they release power, their body moves slightly and then stop as if not wanting to hurt you.
Yiquan. The movements of Yiquan practitioners are very simple, without any deliberation. When they release power, their body does not even move. Only their arms move forward and then straighten up their fingers.

Combination
Taijiquan is Yin and Yiquan Yang. This is true and real. Hope they both can work well together, just as our lips and teeth which depend on each other.

How about the Similarites etc. to Xingyi quan and Yiquan.....

[Sprint]

"i'm also confused why he keeps calling tai chi beauitful and what that has to do with anything?"

I think it's a Chen thing: c.f. Mo Ling....

"I am much more interested in the artistry of Chinese gongfu than any generic 'internal' anything. In my view, it is the union of yinian (mind intention) and artistry that makes for the specific flavor of many Chinese arts and dare I say even the aspect of 'Qi'. This aspect is not the mythical qi that makes gongfu magical, no, it is the artistic aspect that makes the art part of martial art. With this flavor, one's practice takes on a poetic/artistic feeling. This is not in any way antagonistic to martial-ness, in fact it is quite the opposite; it is this poetic quality, focusing on the artistry of movement that allows development of the state of mind of practicing with the focus on artistry of function that leads to deep awareness of movement and detail (mindfulness) rather than simply practicing for achievement or ambition.

This reference to QI, is not that of magical martial powers, but more along the same lines as it is thought of related to calligraphy and artistry that relates to working with 'HE'- harmony, and jinghshen- spirit. its a bit hard to explain perhaps, but it is traditional."

[Uatu the Watcher the Ed]

How about the Similarites etc. to Xingyi quan and Yiquan.....

Yiquan took away xingyiquan's long sets (barehand, partner, and weapon taolu) and added numerous variations of standing methods (zhanzhuang) and repetitive exercises (shili). In addition, new stepping methods (mocabu) and push hands (tuishou) were added. Santishi was changed to a different back-weighted stance, jijizhuang (sort of in between santishi and hunyuanzhuang). The five elements (wuxingquan) remained in yiquan, albeit in a somewhat different form.

[Sprint]

Oops. Sorry Mo Ling I could not help be struck by the similarities in what you said to what Tu-Ky Lam was saying, and as you are both Chen stylists I thought it was just two ways of saying the same thing.

What amazed me about the article was that here is someone who is an internationally recognized Chen stylist conceding that (in his opinion) something he had invested a great deal of time and effort into was incomplete. I mean this guy has a great lineage, he could almost reach out and touch Chen Fa Ke. Even more amazing was the fact that he said that another art has the answers. It could not have been easy, coming from his background, to own up to that.

[dragonprawn]

It is an interesting essay. I agree with the spirit of it, but I also agree with the criticisms.

[Sprint]

Well that is actually kind of a sad tale if you think about it. Here is someone who trained with someone good, but we really do not know how seriously he was taught or how seriously he practiced, listening to HIM say it, is not always the truth.

What this shows though, is a very common problem with the art of Taijiquan that is one of the main reasons that the real stuff is in general very hard to find and nearly non-existent. This guy, Tu Ky Lam, trained in some way with someone good, but did not learn Taijiquan as as art of Yin AND YAng, but apparently only as Yin. He also only learned it as a focus of looking beautiful instead of being beautifully and terribly functional in martial art. He learned it, in my view, lacking basics, and lacking martial method and intent. This is very very common unfortunately.

I learned Taijiquan as an art of Hard and Soft, of nasty martial applications and very bitter basics, this is what this art historically IS. People who did not learn that, well I would respect them more if they would own up to not having learned the real historic art, rather than claim that they DID learn the real thing and it has no real martial value.

Here, this person is claiming that he knows the martial art, Taijiquan, and has realized that another martial art, Yiquan has the martial art that Taijiquan does not. In fact the way he writes it, just very clearly shows that he has no idea at all of the actual martial art of Taijiquan. To claim that Taijiquan does not even focus on internal development, well that is yelling ignorance as loud as he can. It's a sad tale.

I hear what you are saying, but another possibility exists. What if Tu-Ky Lam is fully conversant with all the martial aspects of Chen Taiji and indeed was an expert in such and yet, in spite of this, was still humbled by the skills of another master? You don't seem to want to even entertain this as a possibility. Of course maybe he has other reasons for saying what he says - there may be a political element to it, I don't know. I don't think it is fair to just say oh well he did n't know shit, so that's why he is no good at Chen.

[BWIL]

I agree with Lam insofar as it referes to the mainstream milieu of taichi being offered and practised. I do not think it applies to any authentic tai chi curriculum wich always seems to include a generous portion of zhan zhuang and paired application training.

I personally began learning tai chi, xingyi, and yiquan all at the same time, so for me it pretty hard to seperate the progression into distinct components. The curriculums were seperate but the physical, tactical, and internal development arose together.

I did get to a point after about 4 years where I lost interest in learning any new forms (of which there seems and endless supply) and turned my focus toward application, conditioning, and basics. In this regard I prefer the approach of yiquan, or at least a very traditional progression through a curriculum ie. slow.

B

[ChiBelly]

I hear what you are saying, but another possibility exists. What if Tu-Ky Lam is fully conversant with all the martial aspects of Chen Taiji and indeed was an expert in such and yet, in spite of this, was still humbled by the skills of another master? You don't seem to want to even entertain this as a possibility. Of course maybe he has other reasons for saying what he says - there may be a political element to it, I don't know. I don't think it is fair to just say oh well he did n't know shit, so that's why he is no good at Chen.

If he believes he's "fully conversant" but says that Taiji isn't internal, it allows only a couple possibilities:

a) He was taught Taiji internal method, but after experiencing Yiquan, believes that what Taiji masters call "internal" is fake.
b) He wasn't taught internal method.

His own writing seems to indicate the latter. It's a fact that there are at least one or two reputable Taiji teachers in the world who claim to teach internal method, so he is either repudiating what they teach or simply hasn't encountered it.

This post has been edited by ChiBelly: 29 May 2008 - 02:08 PM

[Sprint]

If he believes he's "fully conversant" but says that Taiji isn't internal, it allows only a couple possibilities:

a) He was taught Taiji internal method, but after experiencing Yiquan, believes that what Taiji masters call "internal" is fake.
b) He wasn't taught internal method.

His own writing seems to indicate the latter. It's a fact that there are at least one or two reputable Taiji teachers in the world who claim to teach internal method, so he is either repudiating what they teach or simply hasn't encountered it.

I don't know what passes for internal in Taiji but from his website he certainly mentions internal training that is nothing to do with Yiquan. Chan si jing and dan tian rotation?

I think Mo Ling makes a good point though about expecting there to be uniformity throughout a CIMA style such as Chen or yiquan etc. There is good and bad wherever you look. I think most people would be pretty impressed, if not amazed if they touched hands with one of the Yao's, But just because the top guys are peerless does not mean that if you study yi quan, you will, by default, achieve their skill levels.

[Ancient Immortal]

Anyone who knows anything about CMA would know that Yiquan is the transcendence of style and is truly not a method but a level of Kung Fu as yet unmatched. Those who would purport to teach it, do it a great disservice, as an instructable method it can be matched and beaten. The developer of this concept, Wang Xiangzhai, I think wwould be greatly dissappointed at the lack of understanding this thread shows.

[jpaton]

Anyone who knows anything about CMA would know that Yiquan is the transcendence of style and is truly not a method but a level of Kung Fu as yet unmatched. Those who would purport to teach it, do it a great disservice, as an instructable method it can be matched and beaten. The developer of this concept, Wang Xiangzhai, I think wwould be greatly dissappointed at the lack of understanding this thread shows.

Whaaa...?

This post has been edited by jpaton: 29 May 2008 - 09:43 PM

[Aksijaha]

Anyone who knows anything about CMA would know that Yiquan is the transcendence of style and is truly not a method but a level of Kung Fu as yet unmatched. Those who would purport to teach it, do it a great disservice, as an instructable method it can be matched and beaten. The developer of this concept, Wang Xiangzhai, I think wwould be greatly dissappointed at the lack of understanding this thread shows.

Bro would you like the Admins to change your screen name (think you might have misspelled something on
accident?). Perhaps "Ancient Immortal" was what you were going for?

[Aksijaha]

Whaaa...

[edit] how did that little emoticon get added? i hate those things [edit]

Multiple uses of the question mark....

?? like so

[Ancient Immortal]

Bro would you like the Admins to change your screen name (think you might have misspelled something on
accident?). Perhaps "Ancient Immortal" was what you were going for?

Thanks

[Wanderingdragon]

Yiquan can never be mastered if you have not mastered all the fundamentals of the three Main internals, without this foundation you can not even begin to comprehend the most basic concept of Yiquan, The Name.

[J.C. (Z)]

Yiquan can never be mastered if you have not mastered all the fundamentals of the three Main internals, without this foundation you can not even begin to comprehend the most basic concept of Yiquan, The Name.

Ok, everyone stop it with this crap now.

[Aksijaha]

But Justin.. only via the Way of no Way can one truly approach the shamanic bliss that is the re-ification of
Wang's essence.

It is the art of doing something while doing nothing.


Much like watching network television.