[YouKnowWho]

In Martial Musings, Robert W. Smith commented on how he used his judo against all of Shang Dongsheng's top wrestlers, and won. Shuai jiao has no groundwork, and no submissions, and yet Smith still succeeded, even when fighting under those rules.

This is a 100% false statement made by Robert Smith.

The ACSCA has just assigned me full responsibility to clear this issue once for all. I'll gather all the information (after all it did happen about 40 years ago) and have a full report on this issue to the public ASAP. Let me just give the names here first.

The persons who had defeated Robert Smith in Taiwan back in the 60th were:

Roger Su 苏成 in Taipei, Taiwan and
Shen Chun-Hui 沈春辉 in Tainan, Taiwan

This post has been edited by YouKnowWho: 26 October 2008 - 05:10 AM

[Shawn.Lin]

This is a 100% false statement made by Robert Smith.

The ACSCA has just assigned me full responsibility to clear this issue once for all. I'll gather all the information (after all it did happen about 40 years ago) and have a full report on this issue to the public ASAP. Let me just give the names here first.

The persons who had defeated Robert Smith in Taiwan back in the 60th were:

Roger Su 苏成 in Taipei, Taiwan and
Shen Chun-Hui 沈春辉 in Tainan, Taiwan

I would love to hear the true story behind this!

[Andy_S]

John:

Actually, Smith made these claims in "Masters and Methods," published in 1974 and reprinted many times since. Smith was in Taiwan from 1959-1962.

Why has it taken the SC Camp 44 years to refute his claims?

I have to say I have always taken his writing at face value. Smith had been doing Judo since 1946. He was a big, strong, man. I would guess most of Chang's SC students (Smith says he wrestled at the National Police College) had had only a couple of years experience with Chang when Smith met him. (I assume, perhaps wrongly, that Chang arrived in Taiwan in 1948-9 and given the chaos of the time, did not get up and teaching on a regular basis until the early 50s...to put it another way, Chang would have had a much stronger cadre of SC students if Smith had visited 5 or 10 years later).

Still, I look forward to reading what you have to say.

[YouKnowWho]

Why has it taken the SC Camp 44 years to refute his claims?

If people didn't make such statement in other Judo forum, the ACSCA will have no interest to dig out ancient history like this. Please notice that Robert Smith was 4th (or 3rd) Dan from 講道館 (a famous Judo school in Japan) when he was in Taiwan. Roger Su was just a high school boy and Robert must out weight Roger at least 40 lbs.

The guy with longer hair and bigger eyes was Roger Su (at 0.27). Since Roger Su lives in Taiwan, he did write a report to the Taiwan news medium but we won't know that in US.

http://johnswang.com...e_sc_class2.WMV

This post has been edited by YouKnowWho: 26 October 2008 - 07:18 AM

[Andy_S]

John:

Ah, I see. Well, good luck, but are you sure you posted the correct clip? Smith does not appear.

Do you have the original article from the Taiwanese newspaper?

[YouKnowWho]

That clip just show who Roger Su is. Here is the public statement from Roger Su. Hope someone can help me to translate it here so people won't think that I'm not faithful to the original article. (May be iWalkTheCircle can help me on this.) I have to delete some information about Wang Shu-Chin 王樹金. Don't want to get into that argument. I'll try to translate of people will be interesting in it.

Roger Su: 15 years old, 162 cm height, 51 kgs weight, 2 years in SC, favor moves - Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping
Shen Chun-Hui: 17 years old, 175 cm height, 48 kgs weight, 2 years in SC, favor move - Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping
Robert Smith: age ? , 198 cm height, 98 Kgs weight, 3rd Dan Judo from 講道館, favor moves - Aishibalah, Kisha Kuruma
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jun. 27, '08, Taipei
AA. Robert Smith 係於1957透過周繼春叔叔(空軍上校/中校)介紹來和常老師學摔角 !
當時他已獲日本東京講道館頒"柔道三段"實力 ! 在美國已是柔道名師並著有
"Judo" 一書出版發行 ! 曾致贈一本給常老師相信你也見過 !
BB. 當時有一天晚間由周叔叔帶同 Robert Smith 到台北市廣州街"中央警官學校"由
游泳池改裝之摔角場兼靶場練習摔角 ! 他當時身高約 198cm , 體重約 98kgs ! 記
得當時常老師看到他脫下之一雙皮鞋擺在摔角場邊時告訴大家笑稱他的皮鞋活像
兩條"小船" ! 當時在場我記得是中央警官學校 24 期上課有王茂竹,葉登文等人上
有我,沈春暉,岑貴成和湛金濤師兄等人! 當晚常老師先要求我下場與 RobertSmith
實摔 ! 他著柔道衣,我穿摔角衣 ! 我時年十五歲建中高一,身高162cm體重51kgs !
只跟常老師練過兩年摔角 ! Robert Smith 專長柔道之"送腳掃 Aishibalah" 和"膝
車Kisha Kuruma" 動作非常犀利剛猛 ! 他多次以其專長攻擊我極具震憾力 ! 唯均
未能將我摔倒 ! 我當時個子只到他胸口 ! 最後我以非常快速的"偏門揣蹩"將他過
頭凌空摔倒在地 ! 他起身後連連對我說"Good Boy ! Good Boy !" 叫停, 我至今還
記得非常清楚 !!! 接下來沈春暉看我用我們兩人的共同專長"偏門揣蹩"把 Robert
Smith摔倒! 他也主動跳出和 Robert Smith 摔 ! 結果 Robert Smith 也被沈春暉以
相同動作快速凌空摔倒在地 ! 時沈春暉年十七歲,身高165cm,體重48kgs,就讀師大
附中高一 !
CC. Robert Smith 說打敗所有常老師最好學生是胡說八道 ! 他只能摔贏當時實力較弱
的 警官學校24期學生們 ! 王茂竹他都無法摔倒 !
DD. 有一年我到Ohio參加 Gene Chicone七十歲生日, Michael Lograsso拿出一本
Robert Smith 返美後所寫描述他當年來台向多位國術師父們學習中國武術經過一
書中除說明係透過周繼春叔叔引見台灣多位國術界名師習藝外 ! 對常老師以找一
些資深學生Senior Students來將他摔倒的教法非常不滿 ! 而事實上只有我和沈春
暉兩個小毛頭 !? 才練兩年摔角 ! 那是其所謂常老師的"Senior Students" !?
EE. 我不知 Robert Smith 如此胡說 ! 我以上所述完全是當時現場實況 ! 必要時可轉刊
美國武術雜誌或網站以正視聽 ! 我絕無半句謊言可百分之兩百負法律責 !!! 沈春暉
目前尚在台南 ! Tel.886-7695-2511(O), 886-6234-7678(H) !
FF. 你可否將Robert Smith書上所言掃描寄來給我見識見識 ? 謝謝 !

This post has been edited by YouKnowWho: 26 October 2008 - 08:51 AM

[iwalkthecircle]

That clip just show who Roger Su is. Here is the public statement from Roger Su. Hope someone can help me to translate it here so people won't think that I'm not faithful to the original article. (May be iWalkTheCircle can help me on this.) I have to delete some information about Wang Shu-Chin 王樹金. Don't want to get into that argument. I'll try to translate of people will be interesting in it.

Roger Su: 15 years old, 162 cm height, 51 kgs weight, 2 years in SC, favor moves - Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping
Shen Chun-Hui: 17 years old, 175 cm height, 48 kgs weight, 2 years in SC, favor move - Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping
Robert Smith: age ? , 198 cm height, 98 Kgs weight, 3rd Dan Judo from 講道館, favor moves - Aishibalah, Kisha Kuruma
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jun. 27, '08, Taipei
AA. Robert Smith 係於1957透過周繼春叔叔(空軍上校/中校)介紹來和常老師學摔角 !
當時他已獲日本東京講道館頒"柔道三段"實力 ! 在美國已是柔道名師並著有
"Judo" 一書出版發行 ! 曾致贈一本給常老師相信你也見過 !
BB. 當時有一天晚間由周叔叔帶同 Robert Smith 到台北市廣州街"中央警官學校"由
游泳池改裝之摔角場兼靶場練習摔角 ! 他當時身高約 198cm , 體重約 98kgs ! 記
得當時常老師看到他脫下之一雙皮鞋擺在摔角場邊時告訴大家笑稱他的皮鞋活像
兩條"小船" ! 當時在場我記得是中央警官學校 24 期上課有王茂竹,葉登文等人上
有我,沈春暉,岑貴成和湛金濤師兄等人! 當晚常老師先要求我下場與 RobertSmith
實摔 ! 他著柔道衣,我穿摔角衣 ! 我時年十五歲建中高一,身高162cm體重51kgs !
只跟常老師練過兩年摔角 ! Robert Smith 專長柔道之"送腳掃 Aishibalah" 和"膝
車Kisha Kuruma" 動作非常犀利剛猛 ! 他多次以其專長攻擊我極具震憾力 ! 唯均
未能將我摔倒 ! 我當時個子只到他胸口 ! 最後我以非常快速的"偏門揣蹩"將他過
頭凌空摔倒在地 ! 他起身後連連對我說"Good Boy ! Good Boy !" 叫停, 我至今還
記得非常清楚 !!! 接下來沈春暉看我用我們兩人的共同專長"偏門揣蹩"把 Robert
Smith摔倒! 他也主動跳出和 Robert Smith 摔 ! 結果 Robert Smith 也被沈春暉以
相同動作快速凌空摔倒在地 ! 時沈春暉年十七歲,身高165cm,體重48kgs,就讀師大
附中高一 !
CC. Robert Smith 說打敗所有常老師最好學生是胡說八道 ! 他只能摔贏當時實力較弱
的 警官學校24期學生們 ! 王茂竹他都無法摔倒 !
DD. 有一年我到Ohio參加 Gene Chicone七十歲生日, Michael Lograsso拿出一本
Robert Smith 返美後所寫描述他當年來台向多位國術師父們學習中國武術經過一
書中除說明係透過周繼春叔叔引見台灣多位國術界名師習藝外 ! 對常老師以找一
些資深學生Senior Students來將他摔倒的教法非常不滿 ! 而事實上只有我和沈春
暉兩個小毛頭 !? 才練兩年摔角 ! 那是其所謂常老師的"Senior Students" !?
EE. 我不知 Robert Smith 如此胡說 ! 我以上所述完全是當時現場實況 ! 必要時可轉刊
美國武術雜誌或網站以正視聽 ! 我絕無半句謊言可百分之兩百負法律責 !!! 沈春暉
目前尚在台南 ! Tel.886-7695-2511(O), 886-6234-7678(H) !
FF. 你可否將Robert Smith書上所言掃描寄來給我見識見識 ? 謝謝 !

what is "Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping (偏門揣蹩)?



{{Chinese» English Translation by John H._2008.10.26}} This is an e-mail written by Roger Soo.


AA. Robert Smith in 1957 introduced through uncle Zhou Jichun {*1} (an Air Force colonel / colonel) came to learn shuai-Chiao with GM Chang in Taiwan!
At that time, Smith has been awarded 3rd Dan from 講道館 in the United States is a judo teacher and co-author of a book called "Judo" published in USA {*2}! Smith gave a copy of this book to GM Chang, maybe you have see it too!


BB. At that night uncle Zhou JiChun brought Robert Smith to "the Central Police Academy" in Guangzhou Street Taipei. It was SC practice field and shooting range modified from a swimming pool! Smith was standing about 198cm, and weighing about 98kgs! I {{Roeger Soo}} remember vividly when Smith took off his shoe next to the SC court, GM Chang is laughing because the shape of his shoes looked like two little boats. That time it was the 24th generation of "Central Police Academy the follow SC classmates in the class includes: Wong MoZu, Ye Teng Wen, myself, Shen Chun-Hui, Ji Gua-Chen, and Lan Jing-Tao. That night GM Chang wanted myself to wrestle R Smith 1st. Smith had his judo jacket and I had my SC jacket. At that time I was a freshment at the Jen Zun high school {*3} at age of 19 year old at 162cm height and weighting about 51kgs. I have only learn two years of SC with GM Chang. Robert Smith is very good at "送腳掃 Aishibalah" and "膝車Kisha Kuruma" from judo, his movements were very sharp and powerful. Smith repeatedly attacked with his favorite moves and it was shocking. Nevertheless Smith didnot throw me to the ground at all. At that time I was still a teenager and my height was up to his chest level. Finally near the end of the match I threw him over my shoulder using a very fast "Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping" {*4} Smith said, "Good boy! Good boy!" wanting to stop, I still remember vividly!!!!!! After our match is over Shen Chun-Hui (沈春暉) also wanted try given that his favorite move is also "Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping" which is same as mine favorite move. Shen jumped out to wrestle with Smith. Smith also got thrown using the same move at fast speed. Shen was 17 years old at the time, stands 165cm, weight 48kgs, National Taiwan Normal University students a first year student.


CC. Robert Smith claiming that he beat all of GM Chang's best student is a total lie. Smith only beat the weaker students in the Central Police Academy in the 24th generation. Smith could not even throw Wang Mo-Zhu (王茂竹) at all.


DD. One year I went to Ohio for Gene Chicone's 70th birthday, Michael Lograsso took out one book written by Robert Smith about Smith's journey in Taiwan learning different MA from many teachers including how Smith met everyone introduced through uncle Zhou Jichun. Lograsso was not happy about Smith claiming that he beat GM Chang's senior students. In fact, Smith lost to us the two youngest student of GM Chang that only practice SC for two years. That is whom Smith claiming to be senior student of GM Chang.


EE. I did not know that Smith is so full of nonsense. What I typed above is what happen that night. IF need to be please forward this e-mail to all the martial arts magazine or Web site in USA in order to set the record straight! I have told the absolute truth in every sentence, and is 200% prepare to held legally responsible for every statement that I made. Shen Chun-hui is living in Tainan still! Tel.886-7695-2511 (O), 886-6234-7678 (H)!

FF. If you would send what Robert Smith said on his book with a scanner for me to check it out. Thank you.








===================
Translater Note: John H (iwalkTheCircle)
{*1} Chinese MA tradition to have a honorable/trustWorthy person that the teacher know about to introduce a new student for charctor witness. Most old-school teacher prefers to accept student this way, so MA knowledge is not passed to evil person.

{*2-??} 講道館 not sure which school this is in English? Is this the book by Donn Draeger which co-author by Robert Smith? "Draeger, Donn and Robert W. Smith. Asian Fighting Arts, Kodansha International, 1969; re-titled Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts upon republication, 1980 (ISBN 978-0870114366)"???



{*3} 9th grade at the "Jen Zun high school", Jen Zun school is the "BEST boys only high school" in Taiwan after middle school. All the kids need to take the national exam for high school and the only way to get in is to test well maybe the top 3% of the testing/retesting population.
Two of my uncles also went to that school, David Lin, John Wang, & northbear on EF.net .

{*4} {{this is copied from the post below from JW}} The grip that you use for front cut or knee seize. When you have leading arm and side door controls (2 contact points) and then if you use

- horse stance bowing 揣 and throw your opponent (over your shoulder) than that's called side door bowing.
- bow-arrow stance leg blocking 蹩 and throw your opponent (over your leg) then that's called side door leg blocking.
- bow-arrow stance bowing 揣 and throw your opponent (over your shoulder) then that's called side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 leg blocking.

Both Roger Su and David C. K. Lin love to use 1/2 horse stance 1/2 bow-arrow stance because it's safer in tournament competition. You (JH) and I (JW) like to use leg blocking (horse back kick) because GM Chang believed it's more powerful. In SC this is called "minor throw - modified throw". This is why in SC there are 360 major throws but the number of minor throws are as many as the number of hair on a cow's body. The reason is simple, you came integrate 2 different throwing principle into one throw and that will be a new minor throw. Another one of David C. K. Lin's favor moves is "1/2 front cut 1/2 leg block".






=====on history- John H====


history is always be treated as lesson learn.....

next time some guy come for challenge one must set up a video camera.
it is not right to leave lies in a published book to make one look good.

I only met with Roger Soo twice this year (2008), & he is "very very very impressive" SC uncle.
His power and speed is amazing.

[northbear]

http://johnswang.com...e_sc_class2.WMV

Thank you so much for the clip.

Many people made many claims. Most people usually ignore the claims.

The Central Police academy had and still has the best SC team and training.

If someone claimed he or she defeated some students, it is believeable.

But if someone claimed he or she defeated every one, may be so and may not be so.

--

Thank you for posting and update.

[YouKnowWho]

what is "Side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 trapping (偏門揣蹩)?

John:

Thanks for the translation. Did you use a tool to translate this? How come it sounds like Chinglish to me?

I'm sure You know what side door is. The grip that you use for front cut or knee seize. When you have leading arm and side door controls (2 contact points) and then if you use

- horse stance bowing 揣 and throw your opponent (over your shoulder) than that's called side door bowing.
- bow-arrow stance leg blocking 蹩 and throw your opponent (over your leg) then that's called side door leg blocking.
- bow-arrow stance bowing 揣 and throw your opponent (over your shoulder) then that's called side door 1/2 bowing 1/2 leg blocking.

Both Roger Su and David C. K. Lin love to use 1/2 horse stance 1/2 bow-arrow stance because it's safer in tournament competition. You and I like to use leg blocking (horse back kick) because GM Chang believed it's more powerful. In SC this is called "minor throw - modified throw". This is why in SC there are 360 major throws but the number of minor throws are as many as the number of hair on a cow's body. The reason is simple, you came integrate 2 different throwing principle into one throw and that will be a new minor throw. Another one of David C. K. Lin's favor moves is "1/2 front cut 1/2 leg block".

This post has been edited by YouKnowWho: 26 October 2008 - 10:42 PM

[Graculus]

I don't have the book any more, but as I remember, in Masters and Methods, Smith talks about a tournament (?) he participated in ...he said he felt constricted by using only SC rules, and was losing until he started to use judo, at which point he managed to turn the tables in his favour.
According to his account, GM Chang had wanted to show off his(Smith's) skills to his(Chang's) friends, and was "more silent than usual" on the trip back home. Although Smith was disparaging about SC, I don't remember him saying his victory proved the superiority of judo. Given that he was relatively new to SC rules, but an experienced judoka, it would seem natural that he found it easier to operate using judo techniques.

I may be misremembering what he wrote, but I thought it was along these lines. It seemed as if the people he was pitted against were not GM Chang's students. But of course, if someone gets hold of the book, then John can see what he actually wrote.

Graculus

[Andy_S]

REPOST:

Actually, Smith made these claims in "Masters and Methods," (Kodansha) published in 1974 and reprinted many times since. Smith was in Taiwan from 1959-1962.

[Danny]

I just now came across this discussion of "Robert Smith vs. GM Chang" and find it a bit troubling.

Indeed, the start of this thread is especially problematical:

Quote:

"In Martial Musings, Robert W. Smith commented on how he used his judo against all of Shang Dongsheng's top wrestlers, and won. Shuai jiao has no groundwork, and no submissions, and yet Smith still succeeded, even when fighting under those rules.

This is a 100% false statement made by Robert Smith."


The FACT of the matter is that Mr. Smith did NOT claim that he was NEVER defeated by Mr Chang's students...

In "Masters and Methods" (pgs. 64 and 65) Mr. Smith clearly describes how he "was bested" and even thrown by Mr. Chang's student.


Mr. Smith does declare that, after practicing under Mr. Chang and his senior students for a while, he "invariably defeated" OTHER "tradtitional wrestlers" who came "from all over the island"...this implies that these "others" were NOT Mr. Chang's students!


Also, in the article written by Mr. Su, he claims the encounter with Mr. Smith took place in 1957...but as was pointed out by Andy_S, Mr. Smith wasn't even in Taiwan until 1959!

So Mr. Su's declaration that, "I have told the absolute truth in every sentence, and is 200% prepare to held legally responsible for every statement that I made..." may need some correction...or perhaps it was another American Judoka he met in 1957?


Finally, Mr. Smith remained friends with Mr. Chang even after he stopped training with him, so the subject heading for this topic "Robert Smith "VS." GM Chang" is misleading and quite inappropriate given the nature of their friendship.


Hope this helps,

Danny Emerick

[BatFink]

Claim and counter claim ... In reality ... who really cares who bested whom, decades ago, especially when there's whole wonderful world of training out there ... right now!

[YouKnowWho]

Claim and counter claim ... In reality ... who really cares who bested whom, decades ago, especially when there's whole wonderful world of training out there ... right now!

Right or wrong, success or failure, are all ancient history. Whatever people thought something was important at that time, it will be just a discussion subject on the dinner table 100 years later.

This post has been edited by YouKnowWho: 06 November 2008 - 06:16 AM

[Taoist]

I just now came across this discussion of "Robert Smith vs. GM Chang" and find it a bit troubling.

Indeed, the start of this thread is especially problematical:

Quote:

"In Martial Musings, Robert W. Smith commented on how he used his judo against all of Shang Dongsheng's top wrestlers, and won. Shuai jiao has no groundwork, and no submissions, and yet Smith still succeeded, even when fighting under those rules.

This is a 100% false statement made by Robert Smith."


The FACT of the matter is that Mr. Smith did NOT claim that he was NEVER defeated by Mr Chang's students...

In "Masters and Methods" (pgs. 64 and 65) Mr. Smith clearly describes how he "was bested" and even thrown by Mr. Chang's student.


Mr. Smith does declare that, after practicing under Mr. Chang and his senior students for a while, he "invariably defeated" OTHER "tradtitional wrestlers" who came "from all over the island"...this implies that these "others" were NOT Mr. Chang's students!


Also, in the article written by Mr. Su, he claims the encounter with Mr. Smith took place in 1957...but as was pointed out by Andy_S, Mr. Smith wasn't even in Taiwan until 1959!

So Mr. Su's declaration that, "I have told the absolute truth in every sentence, and is 200% prepare to held legally responsible for every statement that I made..." may need some correction...or perhaps it was another American Judoka he met in 1957?


Finally, Mr. Smith remained friends with Mr. Chang even after he stopped training with him, so the subject heading for this topic "Robert Smith "VS." GM Chang" is misleading and quite inappropriate given the nature of their friendship.


Hope this helps,

Danny Emerick

Well said.....

[iwalkthecircle]

Also, in the article written by Mr. Su, he claims the encounter with Mr. Smith took place in 1957...but as was pointed out by Andy_S, Mr. Smith wasn't even in Taiwan until 1959!

So Mr. Su's declaration that, "I have told the absolute truth in every sentence, and is 200% prepare to held legally responsible for every statement that I made..." may need some correction...or perhaps it was another American Judoka he met in 1957?

some update posted by JW from Roger Soo:






Correction on the date (E-mail that I have received from Roger Su). This will be my last updating for this issue

Nov.10,'08, Taipei
Dear John

The Story About Robert Smith Wrestling With Me & Sheng Tsung-Hui Is 100% By Truth In Central Police College When He Was In Taipei & Introduced By Uncle Chow Chi-Tsung (周繼春) Who Was A Colonel In Air Forces & A Closing Friend Of Grandmaster Chang Our Teacher That Time !

"I Couldn't Remember Clearly About Which Year But Anyway It's The First Year When He Met Grandmaster Chang In Taipei !"

I'm Still Rememberring The "Secene" Very Clearring Such As Firstly ; Grandmaster Chang Was Joking To Tell Us That Robert Smith's Shoes Is So Big Just Like A Pair Of Boats ! Second ; When We Start For Wrestle Matching I Found That My Head Is Just Reaching His Breast & He Was Getting A Special Smelling From His Body ! Thirdth ; He Got Ａ Very Strong & Powerful Judo Specilist Techneque Of "Ashibalai 送腳掃" !

At That Night Uncle Chow Chi-Tsung Was Just Sitting Besiding Grandmaster Chang In The ShuaiChiao Gem Of Central Police College ! He Is Now Changing His Name As Chow Chien-Nan(周劍南) ! His House Phone Will Be "8862-2763-3003" & Address Will Be "3rd. Fl., Number 3, Alley 3 , Lane 69, Sec. 5, Ming Sheng E. Road , Taipei City " Which Was Giving From Himself To Me At Many Years Ago ! You May Try To Call Him & Find Out These From States If He Is Still There ! If Master Robert Smith Is Beliving With God He Shouldn't Denying About This Turth Due To There Is Only One Thruth In The World !!! I Agreed That Those ShuaiChiao Students In Central Police College At That Time Were Not Able To Beatting Him But Not Me & Sheng Tsung-Hui Althout We Were Just Teenage Boys At That Time ! I'm Crossing My Heart In Front Of God For Telling This To Everybody !

As You Are My Younger Brotherhood In ShuaiChiao I'll Like To Suggest You For Respectful Every School Of Martial Arts & Being Hombles Always ! Any Martial Art's Strength Have To Be Proving On Tournament Matchings ! I Wish That No Matter How Robert Smith Is Still Remenber That Sence Which I'm Telling Aboved Or Not ? But Please Just Stopping Fighting In Internet & No More Mention It Again ! Times Is Changing Every Day ! Again ! Every Kind Of Martial Arts Want To Be Proving Their Strength Have To Be On Tournament Fightings ! This Is My Last Mention About Master Robert Smith & Me ! I Am Respectful To Every School Of Martial Arts ! I'll Sulute To Him If Master Smith Is Still Remember Me !?

Brother Roger

[Danny]

Hello Mr. Wang,

Please convey the following to Mr. Su:


Hello Mr. Su,

Thank you for the correction of your memory of the date...

"I Couldn't Remember Clearly About Which Year But Anyway It's The First Year When He Met Grandmaster Chang In Taipei !"


But not to belabor the point, if you met Mr. Smith in 1959 instead of 1957, then you would have had at least 2 more years of training under Master Chang, and would have been 17 or 18 years of age instead of 15.

"Roger Su: 15 years old, 162 cm height, 51 kgs weight, 2 years in SC..."

and

"I am 15 years old in a high-Jianzhong, 162cm height and weight 51kgs! Only practiced with the regular teacher for two years wrestling!"


But also, you seem to remember that this event happened on Mr. Smith's FIRST visit to Master Chang's class.....However, Mr. Smith writes in "Master and Methods" that he "was bested" in a match AFTER he had been training with Master Chang for a while, and that Wang Shu-chin was also a witness to this. So this could not have happened on his FIRST visit to Master Chang's class as you remember, but rather it was several months later after Mr. Smith had studied with Master Chang for a while...


You also said "If Master Robert Smith Is Beliving With God He Shouldn't Denying About This Turth Due To There Is Only One Thruth In The World !!!"

PLEASE understand, Mr. Smith DOES remember that you (and perhaps also Mr. Sheng) DID beat him in a match when Mr. Chou Ch'i-ch'un and Mr. Wang Shu-chin were watching that night! He has NOT denied this! He has even written about this in his book "Chinese Boxing: Masters and Methods" pages 64-65.


Thank you also for confirming Mr. Smith's account that he "invariably defeated" OTHER wrestlers at the school by stating, "I Agreed That Those ShuaiChiao Students In Central Police College At That Time Were Not Able To Beatting Him..."



Mr. Su, I know that Mr. Smith still has GREAT respect for Master Chang and for his students, and he felt it was indeed a priviledge to be able to study under such a great Chinese martial artist as Master Chang!

I also envy you and your classmates for being able to study with such a legendary boxer as Master Chang!


Please also send my regards to Mr. Chou Ch'i-ch'un. I visit Taipei every year to see my teacher and classmates, and I sincerely hope that on my next visit I can meet you and Mr. Chou.


In Friendship,


Danny Emerick

This post has been edited by Danny: 30 November 2008 - 05:28 PM

[Danny]

Hello John and Mr. Su,

I overlooked this earlier, but think I should also mention that both Mr. Su Ch'eng and Mr Shen Ch'un-hui are mentioned BY NAME on pg. 132 of Mr. Smith's "Chinese Boxing: Masters and Methods" as appearing in a film he took of "Chinese Wrestling".

So it seems to be the case that both you Mr. Su, and Mr. Shen, INDEED must have made a big impression on Mr. Smith with your skill...otherwise, he would not have wanted to film you as representing the art of Shuai Chiao!

Three other gentlemen, Chang Wen-fu, Liu Pao-ch'uan and Hsiao I-hsien are also mentioned as appearing in other films he took of "Chinese Wrestling".


John, please convey the above to Mr. Su...I understand that Mr. Su does not wish to make any more public statements via this forum, but if he replies to you when you convey this message to him please send me a private message.


Many Thanks,

Danny Emerick

[YouKnowWho]

Danny:

I'll pass this information to Roger Su.

This post has been edited by YouKnowWho: 11 December 2008 - 10:38 PM