[hejinghan]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DahSsHocwn8

This is a description of Bagua Paochue form, this form is one of the mother form in BGQ system, this map is one of the evidences that shows Bagua linear forms or "Lohan flavor movements" were NOT added into original Bagua, it shows thet are original in Bagua systen.
this map tells the rout of this form and the mother postures of Lianyi,Xixian and Bagua on their positions, nobody can made up a N.Y. city map unless he rebuilt a N.Y. city to match his map.
I posted a bunch of the Paochue lesson videos on youtube too, there are some evidences also to show that Lohan was " designed" into Bagua system in the beginning, these just for people who are interested have some new informations.
I tried to insert a .doc chart, don't know how.

Attached File(s)

•  PaoChui_chart.doc (40.5K)
  Number of downloads: 21

This post has been edited by Aksijaha: 24 October 2009 - 11:29 AM

[Aksijaha]

VERY COOL Mr. He!! Thanks a bunch...

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DahSsHocwn8



http://www.youtube.c...h?v=9Jg-7m_d6Tw

[Uatu the Watcher the Ed]

Very interesting, thank you Mr. He! I have not learned paochui, so I cannot make much comment, but a few other bagua branches have a paochui form, so this may be interesting to all of those branches! Would be interesting to compare some of those paochui (as well as the luohanquan) forms as well!

[Aksijaha]

Mr. He,

Is this Yin Bagua Paochue form ever done with deerhooks?

[hejinghan]

Mr. He, Is this Yin Bagua Paochue form ever done with deerhooks?

Not as I know, have you seen one?

[Aksijaha]

No Mr. He. I just know from reading conversations you've had on forums with various folks from the Liu Yun-Chiao people that one of their forms is supposedly derived from the same source as the Gong Bao Zhai paochue and that the Ying Shou (tight hand or hard hand) form was done with both deerhooks and emptyhand.

Watching the Paochue it looked like most of the form could work quite well with deerhooks.

[hejinghan]

No Mr. He. I just know from reading conversations you've had on forums with various folks from the Liu Yun-Chiao people that one of their forms is supposedly derived from the same source as the Gong Bao Zhai paochue and that the Ying Shou (tight hand or hard hand) form was done with both deerhooks and emptyhand. Watching the Paoshue it looked like most of the form could work quite well with deerhooks.

Yes, not only the deerhook, many of the moves can be applied to " hidden weapon".

[Aksijaha]

Mr. He,
Besides the deerhooks and (I would assume) the "bagua needles"/emei piercers.. what else would come to your mind when thinking of "hidden weapons" in this sense?

I've seen Chinese versions of the push-dagger for instance. Fistloads and brass knuckles...?

[hejinghan]

Mr. He,
Besides the deerhooks and (I would assume) the "bagua needles"/emei piercers.. what else would come to your mind when thinking of "hidden weapons" in this sense?
I've seen Chinese versions of the push-dagger for instance. Fistloads and brass knuckles...?

In broad meaning,"hidden weapons" are the "things" that you can hide in hand or under cloth that people won't see. we have "short needle", dagger and similar things.

[Andy_S]

Master He:

I understand that it was the case that Lohan was the original style of Yin Fu...so Yin used that as a basis and added the Bagua as a kind of overlay framework?

If so....and given that Taiji was also based on Longfist...would it be feasible and/or wise to add Bagua elements (circle walking, single and double palm changes) onto Taiji?

Forum Members:

Unsolicited endorsement:
I don't practice He Jing-han's material but I would strongly recommend him to anyone. When he visited my school a couple of years back, he took one look at my Taiji basics and made a comment that gave me something to work on for over a year. He is an excellent teacher who really understands CMA - regardless of style.

[hejinghan]

Master He:
I understand that it was the case that Lohan was the original style of Yin Fu...so Yin used that as a basis and added the Bagua as a kind of overlay framework?
If so....and given that Taiji was also based on Longfist...would it be feasible and/or wise to add Bagua elements (circle walking, single and double palm changes) onto Taiji?
Forum Members:
Unsolicited endorsement:
I don't practice He Jing-han's material but I would strongly recommend him to anyone. When he visited my school a couple of years back, he took one look at my Taiji basics and made a comment that gave me something to work on for over a year. He is an excellent teacher who really understands CMA - regardless of style.

Hi, Andy:
What I leart is a different story, BGQ has the philophy (concept) in the begining, then the masters use the movements they were familiar with as a tool to express the philophy and build up the teaching system, it was not started from Yinfu, if you see the map and the whole system, it has the big possibilities that it was origanated from Daoists, I feel TJQ is the same kind of MA as BGQ in this concept, TJO and BGQ are opposite on many aspects while they share some same principles also, I think better not mix them in the begining.

[Aksijaha]

Hi, Andy:
What I leart is a different story, BGQ has the philophy (concept) in the begining, then the masters use the movements they were familiar with as a tool to express the philophy and build up the teaching system, it was not started from Yinfu, if you see the map and the whole system, it has the big possibilities that it was origanated from Daoists, I feel TJQ is the same kind of MA as BGQ in this concept, TJO and BGQ are opposite on many aspects while they share some same principles also, I think better not mix them in the begining.

Mr. He,

Is the mother palm form and paochue/father form in GBZ's Yin style considered by you to be a xiantien vs. houtien division (mother=xiantien, paochue=houtien) or is it mainly one form is conceptualized as more Yin and the other as more Yang?


Brian

[hejinghan]

Mr. He,
Is the mother palm form and paochue/father form in GBZ's Yin style considered by you to be a xiantien vs. houtien division (mother=xiantien, paochue=houtien) or is it mainly one form is conceptualized as more Yin and the other as more Yang?
Brian

Hi,Brian:
We don't have that division of Xiantien or houtien, we have pre-stage for ability training and post-stage for application training, and there is only " Mother form", no " Father form", because the meaning of " mother" is can birth like we say " mother earth " but no " father earth", I know somebody will wonder how can mother have children without father? it's a literal term only.
there are two mother forms in BGQ, Paochue for external system ( also called Baguaquan form ) while "8 mother palm form" ( also called Baguazhang form) for internal system.

[Aksijaha]

Mr. He,
That's very interesting... beyond the 8 mother palm form and the paochue what do you teach as part of the baguaquan (Yin- GBZ) core?

[hejinghan]

Mr. He,
That's very interesting... beyond the 8 mother palm form and the paochue what do you teach as part of the baguaquan (Yin- GBZ) core?

There are a lot, circle walking, 8 mother palms of course, but I focus on foundations now more, bagua structure, bagua twist, bagua force, Dawn connection and power, joints open and close, leading force, deep release..., because I found that without these foundations one can't do Bagua well.